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I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

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Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#391

Post by VBprogrammer »

MichaelCollins wrote: post #384
ridgered4 wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I remember this from my compliance training because it was so ridiculous. It is just a type of bribe, but since it has a special name and a carve out it is potentially not a problem!

I think it's a distinction that matters, morally. A regular bribe is paying an official to do something the law says the official shouldn't do. Whereas grease money is essentially paying the official to follow the law and do their job properly. The latter rewards the official for their show of tactical incompetence, but at least it isn't paying them to break the law on your behalf. More like it's paying them to stop…

As far as I can make out facilitation payments are a legal exception in US law, but they are illegal in Indian law. This is definitely in the ask a lawyer before you go making this kind of payment territory.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#392

Post by gautamcgoel »

thunkshift1 wrote: post #375
boole1854 wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Author probably tried to pull a fast one onthe govt. In what sense is the author trying to pull a fast one? They own agricultural land. It is legal to convert agricultural-use land to non-agricultural-use land. There is a legal procedure for doing so. The author is trying to follow the procedure. The procedure turns out to be very difficult, and they publicize this fact. Where is the 'fast one' being pulled and who…

Why dont you try building a residential property or factory on a land zoned for public parks and tell me how that goes in your country?

...the author owns the land he is trying to build on, which is very different than trying to build something in the middle of a public park.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#393

Post by throwaway738585 »

orwin wrote: post #124
aivisol wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like your optimism... I am writing from a country which joined EU few decades ago and hoped to rid the corruption as well. Now here we are: I have applied for permission to connect a house to a water line in a small town - that was in early June: and it still drags on. Despite all fancy online application and project tracking tools the government has built, the number of involved institutions is insane. And its a b…

Ukraine was really on a roll pre-war, regarding corruption, at least low-level. I had a friend who worked at Kyiv since 2014, first as a nightclub owner, then as a security contractor salesman/manager, and he told me that low-level corruption there was divided by two overnight (during Covid). I don't know what happened, but i guess it is easier to pass harsher or society-changing laws during a pandemic.

I guess he meant the shift from government office offline visits to full digitalization. At the moment a lot of common operations and documents (e.g. register the company) in Ukraine can be done exclusively using the Internet, and if you try to visit a government office they will send you back to fill the forms via the website.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#394

Post by dash2 »

narrator wrote: post #193
roenxi wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am not really sure how you are supposed to stop corruption once it gets rooted in your society. Well, assuming that all people are roughly the same as each other, the answer would be to adopt traditions and systems from countries that aren't corrupt. Attempt the sisyphean task of convincing people that giving power to the middle class is going to lead to a better future. As your comment reveals, the instinct when…

I am a fan of the Singapore anti-corruption method of paying bureaucrats a lot of money. That way they don't have to have corruption side hustles and you can attract good talent to these positions. Somehow this is more unpopular than widespread political corruption.

This is the very famous in economics theory of Becker and Stigler. The high pay isn't so that they don't need side hustles, it is to make the (small) chance of being discovered and losing their job painful. You pay much above market wages, people will not risk losing their job.

Is it true? Well, maybe. From Van Rijckeghem and Weder (2001):

> ... we find evidence of a statistically and economically significant relationship between relative wages and corruption.... While economically significant, the relationship, nevertheless, implies that a large increase in wages is required to eradicate corruption solely by raising wages... The relationship between wages and corruption is not found in regressions with country-fixed effects which points to ineffectual wage policy in the short run...

I haven't found much better evidence than that, though there is Di Tella & Schargrodsky (2004) with a detailed study on a hospital.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#395

Post by [deleted] »

tkk23 wrote: post #274
primitivesuave wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came to the comments to warn exactly this, perhaps more emphatically. Do not set up a legal entity in India. It will become a never-ending void where money and time go to die. The bureaucracy is hilariously inept and bloated, and if you are not willing to pay the bribes or for some entity to navigate the systemic corruption on your behalf, you will end up in OP's situation. Source: hired many Indian developers in r…

India is huge. Could there be a district with enough integrity that it can become the place to establish a company in India?

[deleted]

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#396

Post by asdff »

thunkshift1 wrote: post #375
boole1854 wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Author probably tried to pull a fast one onthe govt. In what sense is the author trying to pull a fast one? They own agricultural land. It is legal to convert agricultural-use land to non-agricultural-use land. There is a legal procedure for doing so. The author is trying to follow the procedure. The procedure turns out to be very difficult, and they publicize this fact. Where is the 'fast one' being pulled and who…

Why dont you try building a residential property or factory on a land zoned for public parks and tell me how that goes in your country?

Most US cities as they exist today would not exist if you could not convert agricultural land to other uses. Where does suburbia come from? Former farms.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#397

Post by asdff »

sooyoo wrote: post #372
ltbarcly3 wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author doesn't get his permit stamped and obviously currently has no influence. He'll probably give up, and now the jobs he would have created and imports that would have become local production won't happen. It's not an obvious good vs bad situation here, a corrupt system that allows bribes is gross, but pretending you can just act like you are in a western country with rule of law is ignoring reality.

You got it upside down. Exactly because too many people think like that, this whole corrupt system works. Imagine the whole country refusing to pay bribes. They would disappear tomorrow. This whole "but this single action won't change anything " attitude may feel rational, and even be (selfishly) rational, but the effect comes through the aggregate. Lots of people in society behaving like that, and you get emergent p…

At the end of the day you are only playing a game that someone else has made. It can be corrupt, terrible, whatever, but the fact is you can do nothing to stop it, so if you want to get anything done you need to play the game. Your little petty protest does not stop the game from being played, the people who made the game as it is just don't care about your opinions at all.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#398

Post by programmer_dude »

kumarvvr wrote: post #148
rohan_shah wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Author of the article here: All the land in India is agricultural by default. Except in some desert states.

Really? Lots of land parcels are identified as Non-agricultural.

Guess which country has the most arable land in the world?

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#399

Post by programmer_dude »

RxVhmD5v wrote: post #362
kumarvvr wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Lots of land parcels are identified as Non-agricultural.

Yeah. His motivations seem a bit suspicious. Is he so ignorant to claim all land in India is agricultural land.

Sure it's not 100% but more like 50.4%.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#400

Post by asdff »

aivisol wrote: post #112
egorfine wrote: post #72

Just like in my country, Ukraine. However during the last years Ukraine is getting rid of corruption at an escape velocity and hopefully at that speed we will be able to be done with it within ten years or so.

I like your optimism... I am writing from a country which joined EU few decades ago and hoped to rid the corruption as well. Now here we are: I have applied for permission to connect a house to a water line in a small town - that was in early June: and it still drags on. Despite all fancy online application and project tracking tools the government has built, the number of involved institutions is insane. And its a b…

This could happen in Marin county too. Can't build a house next to these other houses because there is no water or sewer hookup, and catch22, can't hook up water and sewer because some nesting owls in the area, which are apparently wholly unaffected by all the existing development but would surely be wiped out should you build another 40'x40' building in the area.
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