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The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

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Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#361
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will he unban ISIS recruiting accounts? Will he unban Trump? Alex Jones? He's not a free speech absolutist, he's just making room for his personal ideology. He doesn't need to ban leftists to achieve his goal of pushing them off the platform.

> Will he unban ISIS recruiting accounts? Pretty extreme example but pretty sure aiding terrorists runs afoul of some US laws... > He doesn't need to ban leftists to achieve his goal of pushing them off the platform. Seems like they're the ones who don't believe in free speech. They can stay, no?

Pretty sure if i post parts of the anarchist cookbook i'll be banned in less than an hour.

Explaining how to make a sniper from a commercial rifle and how to find 5.56 AP from military surplus got a friend banned from FB. It was either that or the following post about a chemical company CEO car plates and usual tour. Luckily he lives deep into the woods, so according to him (through his friends), FBI agents waited for three days near his postal box before just leaving a mail asking him for an audition. Didn't get charged, but lost his FB account. It made organizing my trip to the US hell, as Messenger was at the tine the best way to reach him.

I'm still bummed to have learned that despite the lower killing potential, the NRA still don't fight for sniper rifles and commercial true AP rounds (you can still get AP for rifle with a lead core, which will go through bodyarmor btw, but nothing to go through a Limo :/). It feels like it goes against the second amendment.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of dictionary definitions, when judged by the tone and context of common use, "cis" is primarily a slur which is used to de-legitimize and insult the people it is directed at. Of the people who are ostensibly "cis", exceptionally few will choose to self-describe using that word. Kindly refrain from using it.

The only people who would have cis used to "delegitimize" them would be ones who are saying something innacurate about trans people and are being told that they do not have relevant frame of reference for that comment. Describing cis as a slur is... Wow.

Slurs are made by context, tone, and perception by the target. I have never been called "cis" except by people with antagonistic tones trying to get a rise out of me. Furthermore the overwhelming majority of the roughly two billion English speakers around the world who aren't trans do not self-describe as "cis".

It's a slur.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure it is real, but that's not the point. A fact can be true but still be amplified far beyond its actual significance relative to other things that are also true, and that seems like what's happening here. I'm seeing a lot of people citing the exact same highly-dubious articles, which takes us further from figuring out the empirical truth on a complex set of issues. Those citations are also often accompanied by…

>I'm sure it is real, but that's not the point. Please don't deny The Science. You sound like an antivaxer. >A fact can be true but still be amplified far beyond its actual significance relative to other things that are also true, and that seems like what's happening here. So? If something is true who cares if a lot of people talk about it and like the content? It doesn't appear to be artificially inflated so it is j…

> Please don't deny The Science.

I'm not denying anything. In four short words I explicitly accepted my interlocutor's claim. Please don't misrepresent.

> You sound like an antivaxer.

Empty insults aren't helpful either, or allowed by guidelines. When they're obviously contrary to reality, they're actually laughable. I mean, really? This is the level of counterargument you have to offer?

> If something is true who cares if a lot of people talk about it and like the content?

Strawman. This isn't at all about who talks about or likes the content. It's about attempts to mislead people, even if no actual untruth is uttered. Even the law, which is usually pretty strict about requiring proof of wrongdoing, recognizes that omission and misrepresentation can be equivalent to actual untruth. My "good guy with a gun" example makes the same point elsewhere in this thread. When a person or group of people goes around Twitter citing the same weak study about myocarditis and vaccines a hundred times, they're trying to inflate its actual significance relative to dozens of stronger papers on all sides of that same issue. They're using it to instill fear, not to inform. When done for an ideological purpose, as it often clearly is, that's disinformation.

Please note that I'm not trying to prove or disprove any point about vaccines or myocarditis. Go have that poo-flinging contest somewhere else. Consistent with the topic of this submission, I'm trying to address the issue of an uptick in certain tactics that people on all sides use, which pollute public discourse and make all of our lives worse. It's really sad that every one of the responses has only illustrated more of the same problem.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only people who would have cis used to "delegitimize" them would be ones who are saying something innacurate about trans people and are being told that they do not have relevant frame of reference for that comment. Describing cis as a slur is... Wow.

Slurs are made by context, tone, and perception by the target. I have never been called "cis" except by people with antagonistic tones trying to get a rise out of me. Furthermore the overwhelming majority of the roughly two billion English speakers around the world who aren't trans do not self-describe as "cis". It's a slur.

> I have never been called "cis" except by people with antagonistic tones trying to get a rise out of me.

I can tell you from personal experience that this says more about you than the word.

The majority of people in my circle would self describe as cis, and most people I interact with would self identify as cis if the meaning was explained to them.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Advertisers are the most conservative group in any ecosystem Just to be clear, you're using "conservative" in the "risk averse" sense and not the more common political sense, right?

I am not American. So conservative in the classic definition. Majority of advertisers still try to appeal to the broadest demographic possible.

Conservative political views means essentially the same thing everywhere.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I recall correctly, they were suspended for saying that that specific named individual one man of the Year award. That doesn't seem very hateful, although it may seem derisive. There is a difference. Did it go beyond that?

It's hateful in the sense that it's very derisive in the culture of the target and Babylon Bee has a large enough audience that the individual is likely to receive targeted threats as a result. Reach and influence are important, because they impact the magnitude of what a derisive comment can do to a target. You saying, "lol, man!" In your living room has no reach, it won't cause harm. The Bee saying it has huge reac…

> derisive in the culture of the target > the individual is likely to receive targeted threats as a result.

Obvious and simple solution here:

1. Allow people to say whatever offensive jokes they want.

2. Keep banning the actual problem: those who make the targeted threats.

The entire concept of "incitement" is ridiculous. We have agency. Nobody can force me to go threaten someone. Go after the ones who commit actual harm, not the ones who make jokes.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm sure it is real, but that's not the point. Please don't deny The Science. You sound like an antivaxer. >A fact can be true but still be amplified far beyond its actual significance relative to other things that are also true, and that seems like what's happening here. So? If something is true who cares if a lot of people talk about it and like the content? It doesn't appear to be artificially inflated so it is j…

> Please don't deny The Science. I'm not denying anything. In four short words I explicitly accepted my interlocutor's claim. Please don't misrepresent. > You sound like an antivaxer. Empty insults aren't helpful either, or allowed by guidelines. When they're obviously contrary to reality, they're actually laughable. I mean, really? This is the level of counterargument you have to offer? > If something is true who ca…

>I'm not denying anything. In four short words I explicitly accepted my interlocutor's claim. Please don't misrepresent.

>Empty insults aren't helpful either, or allowed by guidelines. When they're obviously contrary to reality, they're actually laughable. I mean, really? This is the level of counterargument you have to offer?

I was being sarcastic.

Antivaxxers say "I'm sure the virus is real" or "I'm sure the booster will protect us this time".

I should have been more clear. I assumed it was obvious with capitalizing "The Science".

>Strawman. This isn't at all about who talks about or likes the content. It's about attempts to mislead people, even if no actual untruth is uttered.

So what is the solution. We can't know the motives of people when they say truthful stuff. Should we suppress truthful things when it becomes too popular because somebody may abuse the truth?

The reason why people are so heavily pushing myocarditis is because we were told the vaccines were completely safe and anybody who disagrees is an antivaxxer conspiracy theorist. This is just incorrect.

>Even the law, which is usually pretty strict about requiring proof of wrongdoing, recognizes that omission and misrepresentation can be equivalent to actual untruth.

I haven't seen any misrepresentation or omission on this subject (not that I have looked much). Every post I have seen have talked about young men having the issue not everybody.

>My "good guy with a gun" example makes the same point elsewhere in this thread. When a person or group of people goes around Twitter citing the same weak study about myocarditis and vaccines a hundred times, they're trying to inflate its actual significance relative to dozens of stronger papers on all sides of that same issue. They're using it to instill fear, not to inform. When done for an ideological purpose, as it often clearly is, that's disinformation.

That is just not the definition of disinformation. Disinformation must be false information.

You are also just making massive assumptions about people's motives. How would you like if I did the same to you? The only reason why you are saying this topic is disinformation is because you want young boys to die from myocarditis. See how dumb that is?

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, if you purposefully misgender a cis person on Twitter, the same rule applies. Not sure what your issue is

"Cis" people dont care about being misgendered.

I've been called a sissy on many an occasion. That is in fact, being misgendered, and I cared a lot when I was young. I no longer care about being mocked and I reject gender norms in general, but I'm just old enough to just realize a bully being an asshole is a tale as old as time.

I realize though that it isn't always on option for people. This can be much more challenging if it's in the workplace, or when people are younger and social acceptance is more important.

I think the trans movement would be helped massively if we just focused on that being anti-trans is just being bullying. The focus on edge-cases and ontology and essentialism of gender makes the debate much more muddy.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#369
post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is whether a wrong (discrimination of women) can be fixed with another wrong (discrimination of transgender women) or should we just do what's right in the first place. The entire point is that we shouldn't build artificial obstacles anymore. The conservatives are obsessed with who's what color and gender, what they are doing in the bedroom or in the hospital, but we don't have to. None of this should ma…

Going forward, you're absolutely correct. I would have fewer objections to a Gen Z trans woman being woman of the year in 20-30 years, because odds are she could have transitioned young enough to be subject to sexism in her career and therefore yes, we should celebrate her overcoming that obstacle, just as we would a cis woman. Also I have no problem with trans women receiving awards where they didn't have advantages…

I don't get the logic. Just because older women have experienced discrimination it doesn't mean that older trans women should too. I'm sure Levine had her fair share of obstacles too, but it shouldn't be up to some oppression olympics to decide who deserves what and when.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppression_Olympics

> Now we get trolling from everybody

I don't know what are you talking about, but feminist lesbians with anti-trans, gender-critical perspectives tend to be loud. They must be the sexual minority equivalent of kicking away the ladder after I got mine.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#370

For what it is worth, I am a trans person. I believe Babylon Bee should've been suspended not because of any moral issue but because Twitter was not a governmental entity, and thus had any right to set policies as preconditions for its users' use of the service. No existing social media company is a public communications carrier. I wouldn't argue for the DNC having a right to have a Parler account, either. I'm a poor…

> I believe Babylon Bee should've been suspended not because of any moral issue but because Twitter was not a governmental entity

You believe they should have been suspended because they could have been? What gibberish.

This is very much a moral issue. The fact that Twitter isn't a governmental entity is irrelevant. They have a huge platform with a corresponding influence on our culture and debate. Everyone accepts this or we wouldn't have just watched three years of arguments about COVID misinformation.

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