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The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

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Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#311
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elton John was notable as Reginald Kenneth Dwight?

The notability requirement is specifically for transgender and non-binary individuals.

Isn't that, itself, bias? Why wouldn't Muhammad Ali receive the same consideration, given that he considered his birth name representative of racial oppression?

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They targeted a public person who exists at the upper echelons of power and privilege. For a group of people so obsessed with comedy only “punching up” it’s ironic to see the justification.

Did they target her or did they target the idea of being trans? > where he serves proudly as the first man in that position to dress like a western cultural stereotype of a woman > We have still chosen to give the award as his self-identification has no bearing on the truth If you attack a successful member of a minority group based on their minority you still aren't punching up, sorry.

> Did they target him

Her.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#313

Great, they should have never been banned to begin with.

The right of free speech doesn't apply to a private company. A company has every right to dictate what services it will provide and the conditions for using those services. It is not a public communications carrier.

This is to conflate (as so often) the USA's legal/constitutional codes with the principle of free speech. That principle has to do with promoting criticism of ideas, and preventing the suppression of criticism. The US codes are (just) one instance of a way to support that principle. The principle applies to all criticism, and all suppression of criticism.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not "absolutely true in the scientific sense", except at the "I have an understanding of high school level biology and sociology" sense. Sex and gender are both significantly more complex than just chromosomes, genitalia, or organs. If you are interested, I'm happy to dive into a good faith discussion of where the science actually falls.

Matter of opinion. I wouldn't deliberately misgender someone just to be a jerk, but the idea suite you're referencing was a niche viewpoint 7 years ago or so. It's kind of incredible to go from there to "this is a settled mandatory philosophical viewpoint and disagreement is banished" in such a short time.

If it was a niche viewpoint 7 years ago (which I would quibble with, given third gender and trans people have existed for millennia across many cultures, just not commonly in modern America), then great, we've seen science advance.

We used to think that being gay was a mental disease. We now recognize it as something that many animals have as a part of their population, including humans. 20 years ago, being gay was like, pretty much not accepted in public and the science was developing.

Trans identities are coming a bit later, but we're still learning and developing our models.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Communicating your stigmas is optional, and rarely does anyone with institutional power demonize you or even attempt to de-facto ban you from public life for it. I am extremely obviously trans, I can't opt out of being beaten up because some conservative talking head said people like me are all pedophiles. And if the GOP had their way I'd be illegal anywhere a 10 year old could be as "inherently sexual".

It is not optional. I have to out myself as well. Any time I start getting in a serious relationship with someone I have to sit them down to have "the talk" about me being a recovering alcoholic and bipolar. It's usually a relationship killer. Let's be honest, you have a better chance of finding love than I do. I've been single for 10 years. Look, I don't want to fight. I just want to use humor to ease my pain. Humor…

Nothing is bad with jokes about trans people inherently.

But as I already said, these are meant to tease your disgust reflex more than provoke laughter.

I'd recommend looking up some trans comedians. Not that I think you need to be trans to make jokes about us, but it certainly seems to help go beyond the typical "X identifies as Y" one joke format that is so prevalent in conservative comedy and certainly the Babylon Bee that collecting permutations of it has its own subreddit.[1]

[1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/onejoke/

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#316
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Truth and satire are intertwined in a special way that makes satire be so powerful. Also Babylon Bee said they were satirizing USA Today as listing her as a top woman of the year.

They did it because of her accomplishments, not for being a transgender woman. There is an important difference. I understand the satire on some level, she was a man, she only transitioned later in her life, so of course there is always a question of whether you have to be born a woman to be a woman, did these people born into the wrong body, can someone be a woman if you find her look uncanny and so on. There is a l…

I have no problem with trans people, but making someone like Rachel Levine woman of the year on the basis of her accomplishments does ignore something important. Namely that a lot of the 'woman of the X' awards are meant to inspire or encourage women in fields they are discouraged from, and that having been perceived as a male for a lot of her career meant that Levine didn't experience early career sexism and that some of her accomplishments may not have been possible for a cis woman. My mother is about Levine's age, and she wasn't allowed to go to college for what she wanted because it wasn't appropriate for girls (engineering). If the only way you can succeed as a woman/the only way you can get accolades is to be perceived as male for most of your career, that is DISCOURAGING, not ENCOURAGING. I feel similarly about Caitlyn Jenner's awards.

Whereas it would be perfectly appropriate to give such an award to a woman who transitioned earlier and would have faced similar difficulties in career progression as cis women.

ETA: This also differs by generation. Levine and Jenner's generation denied a lot of opportunities to AFAB people. Excluding cis women who are now in their 60s from science growing up and then celebrating woman scientists who were only/partially allowed the career because they were in the closet is...odd.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#317
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone legally changes their name, that would indicate to me that the subject wishes to be known by the new name. Yet Wikipedia will still list the birth name.

People change their names all the time when they get married or immigrate and have no problem with their birth name's being available. I don't think it's fair to make a blanket statement about this.

And some trans people "have no problem with their birth name being available," even if they have stopped using it. "Blanket statement," and all that...

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people are publicly mocked on Twitter everyday. What makes "trans" people so special?

I mean, if you purposefully misgender a cis person on Twitter, the same rule applies. Not sure what your issue is

No post body was provided.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matter of opinion. I wouldn't deliberately misgender someone just to be a jerk, but the idea suite you're referencing was a niche viewpoint 7 years ago or so. It's kind of incredible to go from there to "this is a settled mandatory philosophical viewpoint and disagreement is banished" in such a short time.

If it was a niche viewpoint 7 years ago (which I would quibble with, given third gender and trans people have existed for millennia across many cultures, just not commonly in modern America), then great, we've seen science advance. We used to think that being gay was a mental disease. We now recognize it as something that many animals have as a part of their population, including humans. 20 years ago, being gay was l…

I am all about being nice to people who live their lives however, but the idea of "gender" as a fluid philosophical concept distinct from sex is super squishy.

It's massively overstating things to call it "settled science" or even "science" at this point. It's philosophy in theory and public opinion in practice.

Science: this phenomenon exists and people exist who've had these experiences. That's a factual statement.

Politics: you must talk and think about the phenomenon in these proscribed ways. That's an ideological statement.

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