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Welcome to Hell, Elon

theverge.com

271–280 of 315 posts

Re: Welcome to Hell, Elon

#271

Never bet against Elon. Starlink alone will make more money than twitter ever could. If you don’t see the potential for Twitter. That’s fine. But don’t write an article about how it’s “hell” if you don’t have the vision for how to improve it. That’s like someone who has no idea how to cook leaving a bad review for food they could never hope to improve on. If Elon listened to Haters/Doubters like this Verge journo, th…

I came here for the Musk apologist fun and I wasn't disappointed.

Re: Welcome to Hell, Elon

#272
post #267
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It never really made sense to me. But then again I live in country that can do mobile infra. 4G and 5G with good availability and affordable or even cheap prices. And we are not even dense. So I never really got how any other place has any excuses.

Perhaps you dont realize just how not-dense some of the western US is. Looking through counties in Nevada, some of them have less than 1 person per 10 square km.

Rural Eastern Washington has rotting 1Mbps DSL, line-of-sight towers on a few mountains (good luck seeing them), and overloaded 4G internet. And there are thousands and thousands of people here! Fiber-everywhere futurists are seeming more disconnected than Starlink fanboys.

Re: Welcome to Hell, Elon

#274
post #70

Can't wait to see that hot takes from the free speech absolutists who have never experienced that first-hand on a platform they frequent regularly. We already know what that looks like, it's 4chan/8kun/etc and surprise, it's absolute shit.

And if you want a more direct analogue if you assume that the problem with 4chan is the culture and not the moderation that the absolute worst most vile Mastadon servers are no moderation to the point where major servers had to just completely blacklist them. If you want to lose all faith in humanity peruse the Gab database dump. No moderation is a loosing game because any platform that offers better moderation will…

Even heavy moderation cannot do anything, as evidenced by the Facebook message requests that I get that all say I am a bitch in bed.

Seriously, if it was up to me to design my own spam filter I could do a better job than they do.

Really I wouldn't mind there being no moderation on Twitter, but then have every user blacklist what they want from themselves.

Re: Welcome to Hell, Elon

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree this is definitely possible, but if you do all that, is it still the public square open to debate, if you are selectably promoting / monetizing "tasteful" tweets?

I think distasteful nonsense gets deprioritized in all public squares as a natural consequence of our social mores.

Not really. Look at pretty much any reality TV show, or the magazines at any checkout line. Nonsense and drama is big business from an attention and advertising standpoint.

Plus, you can look at most biased news sources and see the drama that they selectively cover under the guise of news. "1 person did a bad thing" and "here's another reason why this entire group is conspiring against you" are not uncommon tropes.

Re: Welcome to Hell, Elon

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

can't wait to see the people advocating against fundamental freedoms to finally get the short end of the "companies are allowed to do whatever they want" stick.

You don't want people to learn what a truly open forum looks like instead? More important to hurt?

oh, no, that's not what I meant. I want Musk to exercise his corporate sovereignity and make Twitter an open forum.

Re: Welcome to Hell, Elon

#277
post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read your post and it’s still vague as written so it’s not very convincing as an indictment against their policy. I’m not making a claim you are lying, it’s simply not enough to come to reach a conclusion it was all a big misunderstanding.

I'm sure you heard phrases like "Dead people don't lie" or "Dead people don't complain" These are so self-evident they pretty much can only be sarcastic. Unfortunately (but probably intentional) they do not allow some way to publicly prove these cases of "bad moderation". Yet there is plenty evidence that they get it wrong all the time. For example thebabylonbee is still banned.

No they cannot be only harmlessly sarcastic. Context is very important.

Re: Welcome to Hell, Elon

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Elon will succeed _and_ I agree with almost everything in this verge article. But Elon has been very inconsistent in what he’s said. It’s impossible for Elon to accomplish his current vision because it’s not internally consistent. You can’t only moderate what is within the law and make Twitter a more friendly place and make it more attractive to advertisers and grow it to a billion users, and make it the defa…

I think there could be a balance here, allow that which is legal but distasteful but don't promote it or advertise beside it. You could probably repurpose some already pre-existing ML models searching for users to ban over takes that are too hot for twitter to mark as un-monatizable. Cleaning house is the way to make this vision of twitter a reality. Bots I think is both the harder and existential problem.

> I think there could be a balance here, allow that which is legal but distasteful but don't promote it or advertise beside it

OK, but then it's more like blacklisting rather than banning. You're still free to show up and participate, you just can't get access to the biggest audiences.

So then the conversation turns from "why is Twitter blocking my free speech?" to "why is Twitter penalizing my free speech?".

Plus, what's legal speech is a real grey area. Free speech cases constantly go to the Supreme Court because we're talking about a near infinite number of ideas that can be expressed. And intent usually matters. So when Kanye writes his "death con 3" tweet, is it a direct threat to incite violence (not protected), an ambiguous threat that's not actionable (possibly protected), a joke (very likely protected), or as a brand new idea that hasn't been expressed yet (possibly protected)?

At the end of the day, a human has to make a decision. So, we're just swapping Jack's and Parag's vision of content moderation for Elon's, but it'll still be content moderation - perhaps better, perhaps not.

Re: Welcome to Hell, Elon

#279
post #250

Yeah, I think this absolutely nails it, and what I find interesting is that in all the time this acquisition has been up in the air Musk has failed to ever engage in the detail of how to address these issues. Elon Musk is interestingly probably the worst person to run Twitter, because whilst the previous guys running twitter weren't very competent, they had their product and they were navigating through issues under…

> Musk has failed to ever engage in the detail of how to address these issues Do you mean engage publicly, or engage even privately within his own teams?

Both, even within what we learned about through the chancery discovery and the leaks (lots of information leaked about what Musk presented to the bankers and investors as the business plan which is where the 75% cut number came from)

Re: Welcome to Hell, Elon

#280

Can't wait to see that hot takes from the free speech absolutists who have never experienced that first-hand on a platform they frequent regularly. We already know what that looks like, it's 4chan/8kun/etc and surprise, it's absolute shit.

4chan is a forum. Everyone who browses a 4chan board sees the same posts. For that reason, these boards are moderated, but apparently not heavily enough for the tastes of some people, to whom for 4chan is the epitome of horror.

Twitter is a platform. Everyone who uses twitter decides who to follow and who to block. Everyone sees different tweets.

Twitter for a long time had almost complete freedom of speech. It described itself as the free speech wing of the free speech party[1]. In that time, it had fewer rules then 4chan. But to use twitter did not feel like using 4chan, unless you decided to follow the kind of people who post on 4chan.

[1]: https://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/mar/22/twitter-tony-w...

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