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I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

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Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#81

Post by sam_goody »

Varriount wrote: post #55
sam_goody wrote: post #45

I do not understand the authors issue with paying bribes. You want your factory, you are willing to pay lots of money for it, and the system works with bribes. Fine, so be it. Pay the bribes and get to work. I once lived in such a country*. The unfairness is built in, but if you have the money, you can get whatever you need relatively quickly. If you are trying to save money, fine. But you are willing to go to court,…

Regarding the country you formerly lived in, what efforts would you say were most effective?

A minister of finance that took upon himself to break all the (huge) monopolies [the country had one phone company, one bus company, one electric provider, etc. These were broken apart one at a time.], to reform the corruption, etc.

He made plenty of enemies along the way, but somehow managed to keep on punching. And it truly is much better for everyone.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#82

Post by resonious »

megablast wrote: post #65
etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Countries with high paperwork and bureaucratic burden are famous for also being highly corrupt. This is probably not a coincidence. Likely all the excess paperwork makes it easier to hide what's really going on, easy to provide roadblocks for those who don't pay, and easier to generally hide bad activity in a sea of noise.

Is Japan the exception?

To my knowledge, Japan's Yakuza used to be highly involved with the government. That's basically just a rumor though. I don't have any details. The rumor also says that this is no longer really the case anymore.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#83

Post by [deleted] »

megablast wrote: post #65
etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Countries with high paperwork and bureaucratic burden are famous for also being highly corrupt. This is probably not a coincidence. Likely all the excess paperwork makes it easier to hide what's really going on, easy to provide roadblocks for those who don't pay, and easier to generally hide bad activity in a sea of noise.

Is Japan the exception?

[deleted]

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#84

Post by [deleted] »

resonious wrote: post #82
megablast wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Japan the exception?

To my knowledge, Japan's Yakuza used to be highly involved with the government. That's basically just a rumor though. I don't have any details. The rumor also says that this is no longer really the case anymore.

[deleted]

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#85

Post by sooyoo »

sam_goody wrote: post #45

I do not understand the authors issue with paying bribes. You want your factory, you are willing to pay lots of money for it, and the system works with bribes. Fine, so be it. Pay the bribes and get to work. I once lived in such a country*. The unfairness is built in, but if you have the money, you can get whatever you need relatively quickly. If you are trying to save money, fine. But you are willing to go to court,…

> Fine, so be it. Pay the bribes and get to work

Since most people think like that, things don't change and everybody is miserable. Cudos to the author for not accepting this rampant corruption.

> If you are trying to save money, fine

If that's really what you think the authors motivation is then you may have missed the point of the article.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#86

Post by usrusr »

automatic6131 wrote: post #57
eunos wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why? I have no idea! Legacy of British civil service and bureaucracy ?

"No, you don't understand, we have to operate like this seventy plus years after the end of British rule - not because we are incapable or we aren't agents - no no but because the British set up this system, and who are we to change it?" See also, "no you don't understand, we had to start a war with the Muslims in the West because the British didn't tell them to be our second class citizens fast enough"

A bureaucratic system selects for people who are good at that kind of process. Unsurprisingly, they aren't too eager to change the environment they thrive in.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#87

Post by callamdelaney »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #8

India's obsession with paperwork is unceasing and baffling. Everything requires an application, even when everything can be done digitally. You need letters and stamps to get anything done. Case in point: the "company stamps" that are required for everything you do with your business. From getting a debit card to changing the maturity instructions for a corporate deposit, you need to sign your name AND stamp it with…

With so many people pointless busywork is a good way to keep people busy and 'employed'.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#88

Post by _448 »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #41
2Gkashmiri wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

dude. unless you are doing some space age shit or something, you don't need to set up a company in india to do business. sure the whole "limited liability" and that but in reality that is just a smokescreen. just use your personal pan card to open a bank account, get a GST registration, do income tax audit and you will be done. No compliance, no nothing. i do taxes and books for businesses with 250+ Crore turnover an…

Unfortunately you need to incorporate if you want to raise venture funding. You'll also struggle to get taken seriously by good tech talent if you try to hire them as a proprietorship.

Depends. The comment you replied to has a point. I have a family business. From personal experience this is how it works in practice for most entrepreneurs.

As for funding and business strategy, it will get bit tricky because you will now have to think of different ways of financing instead of VCs. But it is nothing different than VC financing (and you get to keep 100% of your company).

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#89

Post by wincy »

systemvoltage wrote: post #27
etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Countries with high paperwork and bureaucratic burden are famous for also being highly corrupt. This is probably not a coincidence. Likely all the excess paperwork makes it easier to hide what's really going on, easy to provide roadblocks for those who don't pay, and easier to generally hide bad activity in a sea of noise.

This has nothing to do with physical paperwork (See Japan which runs on paper forms even today; most hospitals in US are paperless but they're far from efficient), but the underlying policies that dictate the requirements and how the approval process must be conducted, number of parties/agencies/teams involved and the incentives put in place to make sure it gets done within a certain timeframe (QA controls). Some gov…

During the pandemic I paid for a concierge care doctor and man it was the most convenient experience I’ve ever had with a medical provider. Cut out the insurance, he had a nurse and one office assistant and virtually no paperwork. Guy actually had brain power leftover to know who I was and what my situation was. I feel really bad for anyone wanting to become a doctor in this day and age, it seems absolutely grueling. I don’t know why anyone would go through all that trouble.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#90

Post by plaguepilled »

sam_goody wrote: post #74
plaguepilled wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"I do not understand the authors issue with paying bribes." Because... Its extremely unethical and facilitates corruption?

OK, accepted. Like everything in life, there is always a trade off. We have a see-saw. One side has indignation, encouraging corruption at the level of one bribe, cost. The other side has time, factory, jobs, and possibly more influence to change the system. And from my experience, the people getting the bribe don't see it as unethical - it may even be their "salary". (Eg. Counselors don't get paid in many summer cam…

This is an unfounded dichotomy. The implication that you cannot have an industrious society without a level of corruption is not supported by your argument (nor any I have heard of).

Equitable working conditions make working more appealing to a worker - and this is extended to the "fairness" of your workplace. Tips are not "the cost of doing business", they are similarly an expectation passed down from authority to the workers to extract their wages opportunistically. People being accustomed to it does not mean that the issue is resolved, because it still leaves the financial risk in the hands of the worker should the business' profitability shift. And so bribes are similarly unethical.

Moving on from the issue of bribes to the bribe receiver, they are also very obviously an imposition to the giver. Not further, they make the "true cost" of a transaction less clear to varying degrees, allowing a services cost to vary very highly compared to what the public might think it is.

There is no good argument for a bribe.

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