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Wild mammal biomass has declined by 85% since the rise of humans

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Re: Wild mammal biomass has declined by 85% since the rise of humans

#271

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AFAIK Africans, that is, the Bantu and related West African peoples, went directly from Neolithic to Iron Age, skipping Bronze. For Mediterranean, it's mainly because the whole region, Iraq, and Northwest India/Pakistan were already integrated together as a trading unit, with factors coming hp from Sumer and Assyria to trade with Dilmun, Indus Valley, and Anatolia. Then the Phoenicians traded tin from Iberia and all…

Did the Africans discover iron on their own, or was the knowledge imported?

Did They or Didn't They Invent It? Iron in Sub-Saharan Africa

- Stanley B. Alpern

Wikipedia summarizes: We don't know for sure.

Re: Wild mammal biomass has declined by 85% since the rise of humans

#272

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You might consider the other side that equal amount of animals get to be born every minute and live some lives. We usually don't consider a person being born a tragedy almost regardless of what life this person had.

Could we use this to justify factory farming humans, in that the agony and terror they experience is eclipsed by the good of them being bred into being rather than not existing at all? We would certainly have more humans being born in that case than now, is it a negative thing that we are not doing this?

I was going to say - I know where the parent comes down on abortion laws. Given that they obviously think an unwanted child being born into an impoverished family unable to support them is still a net positive.

Re: Wild mammal biomass has declined by 85% since the rise of humans

#273

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Yes! Happy to see more people celebrating human achievement amidst all the usual doom and gloom that people like to leverage to push their political beliefs. The GP should be commended. Seriously, it's a bit tiring that [vegetarians] people that want to control what I eat get a pass for posting the same tired stuff every time it came up. If any other fanatic jumped in with their own agenda at every conceivable junctu…

Maybe because your meat consumption and demand for increasing land and water use to satiate your meat consumption is ruining the planet for the rest of us? If I could trap all the "unrepentant meat eaters" in a dome and let you ruin your own environment without broiling the rest of us, I wouldn't have a problem with your choices.

Consider that you may be in a doomsday cult.

Re: Wild mammal biomass has declined by 85% since the rise of humans

#274

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Where do you live? The greater cruelty is that we can feed everyone, but choose to throw it away instead if they can't pay. My mother worked at inner city schools in Ohio, let me tell you if the schools didn't have a free lunch and breakfast program (something a lot of politicians hate) a lot of kids wouldn't be eating at all. Saying hunger is solved in America is absurd. Maybe it is in a technical sense but it's far…

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Or we give out "free lunches" to people because as a society we don't value them starving? It's not an indicator of some huge oversupply and I certainly hope we wouldn't let them starve if food became slightly more scarce and expensive.

Poverty and food anxiety is an enormous issue in this country and it baffles me that you can't see it.

Re: Wild mammal biomass has declined by 85% since the rise of humans

#275

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Extirpation of keystone species causes the rest of the food chain to become disrupted, resulting in proliferation of some species and extinction of others. The consequences for humans are zoonotic diseases and loss of natural food sources.

This is basically bioforming, and I'm sure it's more complicated than "removing keystone species == always bad". For instance, sperm whales compete significantly with humans for tuna fish, making up about 50% of the fish eaten. As our demand for tuna grows, wouldn't exterminating sperm whales help us meet that demand?

Also, wouldn't extermination of primates prevent crossover of viruses? A world without other primates would have been a world without HIV. A world without other mammals would be (or would have been) a world without COVID, MERS, SARS, Ebola, Marburg, Rabies, hantavirus, bubonic plague...

Hmm. I'm taking the fanatical blue aliens' position from the second Doc Future e-book.

Re: Wild mammal biomass has declined by 85% since the rise of humans

#276

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Reminds me of George Carlin, "The earth will be fine..."

In what sense will the earth be fine? Is it the sense that people care about or is it a rhetorical trick to make people feel good about not caring?

The important part is the rest of the sentence:

“… but the humans won’t.”

Re: Wild mammal biomass has declined by 85% since the rise of humans

#277
post #252

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>Almost 40% of all food in the US is wasted each year and that's enough to feed every hungry person on earth. You have a feasible plan to distribute all the wasted food in the U.S. to all the world's hungry people that you'd like to share?

Nope, but we can reduce waste by raising prices for instance by ending farm subsidies. We can mandate the removal of (or at minimum the regulation of) expiration dates on food. Also, educating people about food. People assume that milk goes bad the second the clock rolls over on the unregulated 'best-by' date, so there's incentive to goose the numbers to raise sales. Further, slightly sour milk can be used as a subst…

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Re: Wild mammal biomass has declined by 85% since the rise of humans

#278

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I mean just because something feels good doesn't mean it's right. We can get all of our nutrients from plants, most of us in the developed world don't need animals, we by and large just eat them for pleasure because we like the taste, as you noted by leading with the fact that they are delicious. Further, if your concerns are humanitarian in nature, in terms of feeding the most humans, ensuring the greatest amount of…

> I mean just because something feels good doesn't mean it's right. I’m just not into your religion, sorry. I love it for you though. I’m happy that you’re happy not consuming animals, and that it makes you feel good. I will continue to smoke beef briskets over live fire for hours at a time.

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Re: Wild mammal biomass has declined by 85% since the rise of humans

#279
post #211

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The human perspective. There are extraordinarily few chickens participating in HN comment threads.

On a planet filled with millions of species, is it ethically defensible to consider these matters from the perspective of just one?

Yes.

Re: Wild mammal biomass has declined by 85% since the rise of humans

#280

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Unlike algae we can invent things. We can engineer. Are aren’t a hopeless, deterministic algorithm like algae. Future generations don’t need us to thrive. Plus, what’s your obsession with future generations? Thank you for your suggestion. While I’m choosing prime ribeye steaks to grill this weekend I will consider it.

"Future generations don’t need us to thrive. Plus, what’s your obsession with future generations?" Have you considered asking those "future generations", i.e. YOUR KIDS, whether they'd like to live on a planet with a self-sustaining ecosystem or suffer through a climate catastrophe? You can't possibly think that we don't owe it to future generations to try to leave them a better planet. Would you support setting off…

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