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Europe now has so much natural gas that prices just dipped below zero

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Re: Europe now has so much natural gas that prices just dipped below zero

#161
post #43
post #36

Different countries have very different storage capacities. Some nations have most of their years demand in storage capacity whereas others like the UK have only a few days and require a constant flow. If you are one of the countries that can store a whole year this is great news. If you're Britain, you could still be out of gas and paying exorbitant prices a week from now

Heh, how's Brexit working out for them? BTW has Nigel Farage paid for his lies?

This really isn't a brexit story

Re: Europe now has so much natural gas that prices just dipped below zero

#162
post #52
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We, too, have not switched on the gas based heating yet. Instead, we are using a mix of wood and infrared electrical heaters In the event that your electric power is derived from gas, you've shifted the burden elsewhere and actually increased overall gas consumption, since using gas to warm your home directly would be more efficient.

Not if the electric heaters aren't producing the same amount of heat. The comment suggested they've reduced heat consumption.

With the current weather, most electricity during the day is generated by wind and solar. So, thats not that much of a concern.

Re: Europe now has so much natural gas that prices just dipped below zero

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What was obviously completely underestimated was the elasticity of consumer demand for gas I don't think it was evident that individuals and businesses would be willing to make some of these changes they have. For example, German companies are planning on shutting down factories for the winter. Cities are planning on ending night lighting. In addition, winter so far has been fairly warm. It may still turn cold, so…

> In addition, winter so far has been fairly warm. It's Autumn. Winter starts on the 21st Dec. October in most of the Europe is not that much of a heating season, November will make us start digging into the gas we prepared. It's way too early for early to judge how easy it'll be.

> Winter starts on the 21st Dec.

21 December is Midwinter Solstice...

By orbital mechanics, winter starts around 10 November.

Re: Europe now has so much natural gas that prices just dipped below zero

#167
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slovakia, we didn't start heating yet, a few years ago that would be unthinkable. Looking at the forecast, we won't be heating for at least another 10 days.

Which is good, isn't it? At least the energy crisis has been averted for the first month of the autumn season in Europe and the outlook looks promising going into the second month esp for households in light of rising costs and soaring inflation.

Good right now in the energy crisis, not so good long-term when higher temperatures won't be matched by more rain, which they probably won't, and we will slowly turn into a savannah.

Re: Europe now has so much natural gas that prices just dipped below zero

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What was obviously completely underestimated was the elasticity of consumer demand for gas I don't think it was evident that individuals and businesses would be willing to make some of these changes they have. For example, German companies are planning on shutting down factories for the winter. Cities are planning on ending night lighting. In addition, winter so far has been fairly warm. It may still turn cold, so…

> In addition, winter so far has been fairly warm. It's Autumn. Winter starts on the 21st Dec. October in most of the Europe is not that much of a heating season, November will make us start digging into the gas we prepared. It's way too early for early to judge how easy it'll be.

> Winter starts on the 21st Dec.

Or on Nov 10, or on Dec 1 depending on how you count.

Re: Europe now has so much natural gas that prices just dipped below zero

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If someone had predicted Europe would have the LNG supply they do today at the beginning of the war they would have been dismissed as a utopist. Not really. It was always a matter of cost. Losing 30% of gas supply is no laughing matter - and the shock will naturally push governments to willingness to pay above premium prices to stabilize supply.

Europe can't just "pay above premium prices" to replace Russian gas. It would have been physically impossible to replace the Russian gas (and it still is physically impossible to fully replace Russian gas within 2022) without creating a tremendous amount of infrastructure around getting LNG, which European countries have been incredibly successful at doing so. The progress they've made in creating that infrastructure…

Replacing gas also means taking it from someone else and, hence, disturbing poor countries.

Re: Europe now has so much natural gas that prices just dipped below zero

#170
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but if the electricity is made from gas, then 300% efficiency of heat pump is better than 98% efficient heat furnace only if generation efficiency is at least 33%. Heat pumps are pretty great, but as of today, they are by no means necessarily more efficient than burning gas directly for heat, at least when it comes to GHG emissions. In fact, in very cold climates where air temperature is below freezing most of t…

> only if generation efficiency is at least 33%. the efficiency of a combined cycle gas generator is usually 50-60%.

Then it depends on what portion of the electricity mix is CCG instead of simple gas turbines or coal, what’s the actual efficiency of heat pump (you won’t get 300% when it’s subzero temperature) etc. Point is, air source heat pumps are really not much, or even necessarily at all more efficient than just burning gas directly at home, it all depends.
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