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Why is hydroelectricity unfashionable?

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Re: Why is hydroelectricity unfashionable?

#61

Post by insane_dreamer »

dottedmag wrote: post #47
insane_dreamer wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this indeed the case, even for smaller, localized dams? Would be interesting to see a comprehensive study on this (if one has been done).

Looks like I was wrong! This report puts current usage to 20%: https://web.archive.org/web/20170329132409/http://www.iea.or...

Nice find! Most interesting is to see potential in Africa and Asia/Pacific, where there is the greatest need for clean energy as consumption grows as a result of both population growth and industrialization.

Re: Why is hydroelectricity unfashionable?

#62

Post by insane_dreamer »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #13

I think the problem is the focus on huge dam projects, for which there are very few available opportunities not already taken or which would cause a great deal of damage. Small dams, as the type promoted by Smil in the article, would indeed be beneficial, though I haven't seen a study on where such dams could be reliably placed and the projected outcomes.

Another poster found this, which is relevant: https://web.archive.org/web/20170329132409/http://www.iea.or...

Re: Why is hydroelectricity unfashionable?

#63

Post by idiotsecant »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #57
idiotsecant wrote: post #37

Obviously hydroelectricity is massively damaging to ecosystems. My day job includes designing hydroelectric control systems and even I can admit that. That's a big part of the reason that hydro is a non-starter in much of the western world, which is probably a reasonably good thing (although there are certainly some exceptions where hydro development seems like a no-brainer to me but I digress) What's not so clear to…

We certainly can use solar, wind & batteries to eliminate fossil fuels from our electricity system. Estimates are that we'd need about 300TWh of batteries, which is on the edge of feasible. Pumped storage would be a lot cheaper, though.

Oh great, only 300TWH of batteries! Let's put in the P.O.! Who is supplying those, again?

Re: Why is hydroelectricity unfashionable?

#64

Post by greedo »

idiotsecant wrote: post #60
plorg wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was in school for power systems planning the the accepted notion was that pumped hydro storage is cool and great, but like hydropower, it is extremely geographically dependent, and we have basically developed all of the places where it would work (at least in the US), or at least, by order of magnitude, there are not enough remaining untapped hydro-related resources to make a dent in projected storage demand.…

Entirely wrong. All pumped storage requires is a big high spot and a big low spot*. Take a look at this, for example: https://www.gordonbuttepumpedstorage.com/ There are a lot of good pumped storage sites out there. *exaggeration, but close enough.

Unfortunately that rules out a lot of the US Midwest, where coal is a huge source of electricity generation.

Re: Why is hydroelectricity unfashionable?

#65

Post by pclmulqdq »

idiotsecant wrote: post #37

Obviously hydroelectricity is massively damaging to ecosystems. My day job includes designing hydroelectric control systems and even I can admit that. That's a big part of the reason that hydro is a non-starter in much of the western world, which is probably a reasonably good thing (although there are certainly some exceptions where hydro development seems like a no-brainer to me but I digress) What's not so clear to…

Wind and solar energy also destroy ecosystems, but we don't stop using them. Dams may be more harmful, though.

Re: Why is hydroelectricity unfashionable?

#66

Post by 99_00 »

idiotsecant wrote: post #37

Obviously hydroelectricity is massively damaging to ecosystems. My day job includes designing hydroelectric control systems and even I can admit that. That's a big part of the reason that hydro is a non-starter in much of the western world, which is probably a reasonably good thing (although there are certainly some exceptions where hydro development seems like a no-brainer to me but I digress) What's not so clear to…

Why doesn't hydroelectric pumped storage have the same obvious and massive ecosystem damage as hydroelectric when it is hydro electric + the environmental damage caused by producing solar panels or wind turbines?

Re: Why is hydroelectricity unfashionable?

#69

Post by cinntaile »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #65
idiotsecant wrote: post #37

Obviously hydroelectricity is massively damaging to ecosystems. My day job includes designing hydroelectric control systems and even I can admit that. That's a big part of the reason that hydro is a non-starter in much of the western world, which is probably a reasonably good thing (although there are certainly some exceptions where hydro development seems like a no-brainer to me but I digress) What's not so clear to…

Wind and solar energy also destroy ecosystems, but we don't stop using them. Dams may be more harmful, though.

What's your definition of destroy and do you have any examples of ecosystems that were destroyed by wind and solar?

Re: Why is hydroelectricity unfashionable?

#70

Post by bcrosby95 »

falcolas wrote: post #26
exabrial wrote: post #9

"Green", if you exclude absolute sacrifice of an entire downstream ecosystem.

Downstream actually sees benefits from a dam, since the output of the river remains unnaturally constant even during periods of drought. The immediate upstream from a dam, however, is another story entirely.

I think looking at the ecosystems in isolation is part of the problem. The ecosystems are connected, and affecting one affects the other. Especially for species that use both, such as salmon.
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