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Why is hydroelectricity unfashionable?

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Re: Why is hydroelectricity unfashionable?

#31

Post by idiotsecant »

pavon wrote: post #6

This isn't hard to understand. * Most of the best sites for hydro (and geothermal) in western countries already have damns. * Between climate change and growing population, fresh water is becoming more and more scarce, making hydro a less dependable source of energy. * These projects take a long time to plan and build. Between these there is little opportunity for hydro to play a significant role in our short-term de…

for some definition of the word 'best' - we have plenty of places that would be perfectly suitable other than all the pesky people it would displace. If we really cared about carbon-free energy that would be a solvable problem.

Re: Why is hydroelectricity unfashionable?

#32

Post by arcticbull »

acheron wrote: post #16

Because "greens" are anti-progress, anti-humanity, and pro-hairshirting, so anything that allows humanity to thrive without suffering doesn't count. The restrictions, suffering, and decrease in prosperity are the point. "Environmentalists make good movie villains because they want to make your real life worse" https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/01/03/environme... "Environmentalists want to increase the cost…

> Environmentalists want to increase the costs of everyday goods and services by taxing carbon.

They want you to pay for the impacts of carbon emissions at the point of sale instead of socializing them later. That seems fair to me.

> They want to turn your corpse into food for plants because even the sweet release of death cannot save you from the environmentalist menace.

In this particular case it doesn't really matter what you or anyone else want lol. We will all be plant food. I guess unless you shoot yourself into space, but even that's not a hard guarantee.

Re: Why is hydroelectricity unfashionable?

#33

Post by dragonwriter »

onepointsixC wrote: post #17

Hydro isn't unfashionable. We just don't have reasonable places to keep daming, so there's little really to talk about. Nuclear is unfashionable, because there's huge growth potential among wealthy industrial countries, but because it's not "liked" there's very little actual growth.

> Hydro isn't unfashionable.

Its unfashionable for new capacity because much of the low-hanging fruit opportunities are plucked, and it has high upfront costs, and, while good from a climate and air pollution standpoint, it is still one of the most enviromentally destructive energy sources.

Also, while it doesn’t induce climate change, it can be vulnerable to climate change.

Re: Why is hydroelectricity unfashionable?

#34

Post by bpodgursky »

onepointsixC wrote: post #17

Hydro isn't unfashionable. We just don't have reasonable places to keep daming, so there's little really to talk about. Nuclear is unfashionable, because there's huge growth potential among wealthy industrial countries, but because it's not "liked" there's very little actual growth.

Actually the Yosemite valley has significant hydro potential.

Re: Why is hydroelectricity unfashionable?

#35

Post by AlexandrB »

chungy wrote: post #3

It's not very green at all. It's known to kill large swaths of the ecosystem. The true green yet unfashionable energy source is nuclear fission.

Usage of the word "green" seems to be increasingly synonymous with "carbon neutral/efficient" while ignoring other environmental costs. I suppose carbon is the most pressing issue, but I remember reading about how dams destroy natural habitats way back in grade school so this shouldn't be news.

Re: Why is hydroelectricity unfashionable?

#37

Post by idiotsecant »

Obviously hydroelectricity is massively damaging to ecosystems. My day job includes designing hydroelectric control systems and even I can admit that. That's a big part of the reason that hydro is a non-starter in much of the western world, which is probably a reasonably good thing (although there are certainly some exceptions where hydro development seems like a no-brainer to me but I digress)

What's not so clear to me though, is why we aren't pumping (pun intentional) massive amounts of money into hydroelectric pumped storage. These systems are capable of storing massive amount of energy cheaply, safely, and (relative to other methods) efficiently. Every single pumped storage project gets mired in protracted legal battles and they are impossible to build. Our modern energy ecosystem requires more and more storage, and somehow we are under the illusion that we can get there with overgeneration of solar and hooking up batteries. We can't. We need storage and pumped storage is the only practical way to get there with current supply chains and technology.

Re: Why is hydroelectricity unfashionable?

#38

Post by ltbarcly3 »

arcticbull wrote: post #32
acheron wrote: post #16

Because "greens" are anti-progress, anti-humanity, and pro-hairshirting, so anything that allows humanity to thrive without suffering doesn't count. The restrictions, suffering, and decrease in prosperity are the point. "Environmentalists make good movie villains because they want to make your real life worse" https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/01/03/environme... "Environmentalists want to increase the cost…

> Environmentalists want to increase the costs of everyday goods and services by taxing carbon. They want you to pay for the impacts of carbon emissions at the point of sale instead of socializing them later. That seems fair to me. > They want to turn your corpse into food for plants because even the sweet release of death cannot save you from the environmentalist menace. In this particular case it doesn't really mat…

> They want you to pay for the impacts of carbon emissions

This can't be quantified currently. Current methods of 'paying' for carbon emissions have ended up being corrupt wealth transfers. That people are still for them is pretty good evidence they aren't really concerned about the consequences of carbon emissions.

Re: Why is hydroelectricity unfashionable?

#39

Post by Kukumber »

Because lobby

The day you come up with infinite and free aboundant energy will be the day you put to bankruptcy both the US, the Middle East and Russia, and they don't want that

But it's in the plan anyways, we are getting the taste of it right now, globally

Bonus:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WeoeJyJmN4&t=455s

Re: Why is hydroelectricity unfashionable?

#40

Post by kkfx »

Mountain hydro is fantastic but have an important issue: you need water and mountains, something not such rare but not so widespread either so it's VERY good to have as much as mountain hydro, but hardly suffice for most countries in the world.

Sure some are luckiest like Norway or Swiss, but others are not, at least not for vast part of the country. That's the real "unfashionable" part. The rest is just a matter of expectation: PRs have sold to many the idea we can bring with us energy in significant quantity, p.v. actually offer that in a vast area of the world, of course only when the Sun shine, while you can't hardly have mountain hydro at home except veeeeeeeery few homes. Some also might fear dam incidents, oppose against not-so-small projects etc. That's is.

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