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Europe now has so much natural gas that prices just dipped below zero

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21–30 of 197 posts

Re: Europe now has so much natural gas that prices just dipped below zero

#21

This is a better situation than the reverse. It’s fortunate the winter has been mild so far. Will be interesting if the LNG industry can keep pace and replace Russia for good.

>LNG industry can keep pace and replace Russia for good.

Nobody can replace Russia and their resources in the long-term.

Re: Europe now has so much natural gas that prices just dipped below zero

#22
post #3

I had to pay 800 euros last month for home energy on my variable contract in Amsterdam. Insane.

What are the kWh prices in Amsterdam? I'm in London and would need to consume more than 1,700 kw to pay that much (£0.3866 per kWh, £0.3849 standing charge).

Edit: I'm also on a variable contract

Re: Europe now has so much natural gas that prices just dipped below zero

#23
post #5

Normally you run storage facilities neither all the way full nor all the way empty: you want to be able to smooth out fluctuations in supply and demand. Because of the war Europe is running gas storage near its upper limit, which means we should expect less flexibility and more price volatility: they won't want to draw them way down if we get a serious cold snap, and they have nowhere to put extra gas if it's warmer…

Great, succinct explanation - thanks.

Re: Europe now has so much natural gas that prices just dipped below zero

#24
post #16

I am an American and not knowledgeable about how energy pricing works, so I am curious, how do we square this with the rates that Europeans have been paying for energy and natural gas lately? Are utilities making off like bandits? Or were they running very low over the last few months and suddenly got a huge influx?

Well lately the price is 350EUR/MWh

Re: Europe now has so much natural gas that prices just dipped below zero

#25
post #16

I am an American and not knowledgeable about how energy pricing works, so I am curious, how do we square this with the rates that Europeans have been paying for energy and natural gas lately? Are utilities making off like bandits? Or were they running very low over the last few months and suddenly got a huge influx?

Yes, on the one hand there are some sticky prices and higher profit margins (which is talked about) but also increased volatility in general. Beyond that, I wish I understood it better.

Re: Europe now has so much natural gas that prices just dipped below zero

#26

This is a better situation than the reverse. It’s fortunate the winter has been mild so far. Will be interesting if the LNG industry can keep pace and replace Russia for good.

>LNG industry can keep pace and replace Russia for good. Nobody can replace Russia and their resources in the long-term.

“long term” is doing a lot of work in that sentence.

It seems clear that what we’re doing right now can sustain things until spring. If we’re willing to pay to do it again next year, and the year after that… at some point it’s going to be financially viable to change the makeup of both energy sources and how it’s consumed.

Re: Europe now has so much natural gas that prices just dipped below zero

#27
post #16

I am an American and not knowledgeable about how energy pricing works, so I am curious, how do we square this with the rates that Europeans have been paying for energy and natural gas lately? Are utilities making off like bandits? Or were they running very low over the last few months and suddenly got a huge influx?

Very short term and local supply and demand issue where there was way more supply than demand. A market inefficiency issue with Europe finding new sources for natural gas supply and being paranoid about running out.

They’re trying to cut off Russian supply and being threatened of being cut off. Russian supply is being replaced with American gas. But this is new, it was warm, there was too much gas in places. It happens. It’s good news really.

Re: Europe now has so much natural gas that prices just dipped below zero

#28
post #3

I had to pay 800 euros last month for home energy on my variable contract in Amsterdam. Insane.

What are the kWh prices in Amsterdam? I'm in London and would need to consume more than 1,700 kw to pay that much (£0.3866 per kWh, £0.3849 standing charge). Edit: I'm also on a variable contract

How variable -- how many times a day does your price per kwh change?

Re: Europe now has so much natural gas that prices just dipped below zero

#29

This is a better situation than the reverse. It’s fortunate the winter has been mild so far. Will be interesting if the LNG industry can keep pace and replace Russia for good.

It can for Europe, prices will be higher than with Russian gas, and production cost will rise.

But the main impact will be to poorer countries which until now might have been depending on LNG while "rich" Europe is buying up everything.

Re: Europe now has so much natural gas that prices just dipped below zero

#30
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact It’s unseasonably hot currently. Nobody is using heaters at all I suspect.

Where do you live?

Same here, northern Germany, it has been unusual warm, we haven't started to heat this year yet because of it

(though I might not be impacted as hard later also as the city is producing biogas and is using PtH).

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