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Europe now has so much natural gas that prices just dipped below zero

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Re: Europe now has so much natural gas that prices just dipped below zero

#11

This is a better situation than the reverse. It’s fortunate the winter has been mild so far. Will be interesting if the LNG industry can keep pace and replace Russia for good.

Not to nitpick and assuming you're living in the northern hemisphere, winter has not officially arrived; we're still in the fall/autumn season.

Re: Europe now has so much natural gas that prices just dipped below zero

#12
You have different markets essentially - there is a market for delivery, and a futures market.

The market for delivery briefly went price negative. This is dominated by what is in the pipeline right now and what volume of gas is being pulled from the pipeline right now.

The futures market is still positive. This market is served by LNG and gas that is still in the ground. The price here is dominated by risks.

---

The above model is oversimplified and wrong. If you want to know how things work, it may take some dedicated study beyond internet comments.

Re: Europe now has so much natural gas that prices just dipped below zero

#13
post #6

> Natural gas prices just dipped below zero. > Those ships [are] carrying about $2 billion worth of LNG. Really?

The $2 Bln quote could be historical but in real time live spot prices at the present, the rates cratered momentarily to zero or even negative territories.

Re: Europe now has so much natural gas that prices just dipped below zero

#14

This is a better situation than the reverse. It’s fortunate the winter has been mild so far. Will be interesting if the LNG industry can keep pace and replace Russia for good.

Not to nitpick and assuming you're living in the northern hemisphere, winter has not officially arrived; we're still in the fall/autumn season.

In fact It’s unseasonably hot currently. Nobody is using heaters at all I suspect.

Re: Europe now has so much natural gas that prices just dipped below zero

#15
post #6

> Natural gas prices just dipped below zero. > Those ships [are] carrying about $2 billion worth of LNG. Really?

Spot prices can be very volatile and easily drop below zero. If your stores are full and you have nowhere to put gas that might be building up inside an incoming pipeline, you'll be happy to give it away for free. But once it gets cold and people start using more gas, you might pay those $2B for the gas in the tankers off your coast to satisfy increased demand.

Re: Europe now has so much natural gas that prices just dipped below zero

#16
I am an American and not knowledgeable about how energy pricing works, so I am curious, how do we square this with the rates that Europeans have been paying for energy and natural gas lately? Are utilities making off like bandits? Or were they running very low over the last few months and suddenly got a huge influx?

Re: Europe now has so much natural gas that prices just dipped below zero

#17
post #3

I had to pay 800 euros last month for home energy on my variable contract in Amsterdam. Insane.

Well, if you have a refrigerated pressure tank which can store a few tens of thousands of cubic yards of LNG, you are in luck.

Re: Europe now has so much natural gas that prices just dipped below zero

#18
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to nitpick and assuming you're living in the northern hemisphere, winter has not officially arrived; we're still in the fall/autumn season.

In fact It’s unseasonably hot currently. Nobody is using heaters at all I suspect.

Where do you live?

Re: Europe now has so much natural gas that prices just dipped below zero

#20
post #12

You have different markets essentially - there is a market for delivery, and a futures market. The market for delivery briefly went price negative. This is dominated by what is in the pipeline right now and what volume of gas is being pulled from the pipeline right now. The futures market is still positive. This market is served by LNG and gas that is still in the ground. The price here is dominated by risks. --- The…

> The above model is oversimplified and wrong.

Can you share anything that would help us commoners reading internet comments understand why the analysis is wrong?

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