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Exxon’s Exodus

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Re: Exxon’s Exodus

#61

Post by ianbutler »

foobarian wrote: post #40
ianbutler wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that a lot of people in this thread are expecting too much. Spinning up REST services and some kube clusters and maintaining them isn't why FAANG/MAANGA whatever make 300k+ a year and like 450k+ at the staff level. They make that because they're architecting and scaling services to literally something like 50% of the global population, and theoretically with deep knowledge of the distributed systems algos and…

> Spinning up REST services and some kube clusters Furthermore: pray tell who do you think built Kubernetes and web services?

I'm assuming this was rhetorical, but since I imagine there are plenty of people who don't actually know:

Kube is a descendant of Borg, and for those who don't know that's Google's internal container management solution. General web services are a little more muddy but most of the top frameworks and services are the conception of devs either in or formerly from FAANG/MAANG/ACRONYM whatever.

Like there's still a reason having those names on your resume is used as signal in a lot of places. It doesn't always mean the dev is the best thing since sliced bread, but I get why people use it as signal.

Re: Exxon’s Exodus

#62

Post by HillRat »

Covzire wrote: post #3
Victerius wrote: post #2

> Keillor started by thanking everyone for their hard work over the past year, presented awards to three top-performing teams, and then opened the floor to questions. It was at this point things started to unravel, according to four people present who spoke on condition of anonymity. The software developers, data analysts, and technicians who run Exxon’s vast computing network, which helps the company manage everythi…

>> and whether Exxon was willing to raise pay to the level of major tech companies. Why would oil companies need to hire the same kinds of engineers that a SV giant would need? If they can get that kind of salary, more power to them, but I don't see the challenges being similar enough except on a smaller scale with device drivers for industrial equipment, etc.

The data analytic side of oil majors is extremely sophisticated and complex: these are groups dealing with massive sets of all-sensor geologic data and using them to make multi-billion-dollar bets as to what's going to happen thousands of feet under the earth under complex and immense temperature and pressure gradients.

Even outside of those departments, the challenges are significant (though companies underinvest in digital in those areas). Every downstream refinery, for example, is a unique beast full of custom equipment, sensors, and systems, so tying those into digital twins in a scalable, effective, and efficient way is a massively hard problem, and one that has potentially dire real-world consequences. Midstream distribution is full of complex optimization issues from both physical and financial points of view. And upstream E&P, in addition to the geology side mentioned above, is full of literal life-and-death decisions that require sophisticated real-time analytic models that can guide driller behavior.

Leaving aside the moral issues raised by working for carbon-intensive energy industries, the technical challenges are significant, impressive, and fascinating to work on -- more so, I would argue, than trying to slightly increase social media ad click rates.

Re: Exxon’s Exodus

#63

Post by stephenhuey »

UIUC_06 wrote: post #13

A dinosaur media company cheers on a dinosaur energy company's demise. > a culture that’s increasingly out of step with the world around it. Those interviewed describe an organization trapped in amber, whose insular and fear-based culture—once a beacon of corporate America—has become a drag on innovation, risk taking, and career satisfaction. It's a giant, old company, with 1000s of employees who were not at that tow…

I'm not going to defend either of those dinosaurs! However, I happen to know one prominent startup that used to be in Palo Alto has major problems with toxicity and tunnel vision and lack of meritocracy despite having only a few thousand employees (tiny next to Exxon, and makes even less per employee despite being a flagship SV firm whose chief asset is software), and there are plenty more Silicon Valley companies like it. I've also worked for a giant profitable Manhattan company which is slow to innovate. I've worked in several startups and also large companies, and simply put, large dinosaurs have problems that tiny companies don't have, so don't just wave your hand and say Texas.

Re: Exxon’s Exodus

#64

Post by BlargMcLarg »

stocknoob wrote: post #23
scottLobster wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of systems do you think run the oil drills/manages refineries? Or simulate potential drilling sites? You think Exxon doesn't have data-centers? Or that everything is still analog buttons with a digital device driver on the end like the 80s? I work for a large defense contractor, you know what I'm working on right now? I'm coding up REST services, and a couple of months ago I was helping to spin up a Kuberne…

The question is whether you are a cost center to the company. In IT when your revenue doesn’t come from software? You’re a cost center.

Seems like any industry views its IT as a cost center by default until said otherwise, even if their revenue comes from software. There is no cure for shortsightedness.

Re: Exxon’s Exodus

#65

Post by fallingfrog »

>Exxon spokesperson Amy von Walter rejects those characterizations. “The idea that ExxonMobil’s culture is what these employees say it is doesn’t hold water for two reasons: how many people join this company each year and how long people stay,” she wrote in an email.

Yeah, I feel like if you're focusing on "how long people stay", and also "how many people join" you're looking at entrenched middle management and rapid turnover of new hires.

What's really going on in that situation is that people are building little internal fiefdoms and engaging in petty middle management power plays like trying to sabotage each other's projects in case they make your own team look bad, and bloating your own department with unnecessary hires to enhance your own prestige. If you let certain kinds of people settle in to middle management they become like barnacles that are impossible to dislodge.

Re: Exxon’s Exodus

#66

Post by benwad »

mjr00 wrote: post #45
throwaway5752 wrote: post #28

It should be clear that working at a fundamentally harmful company, like Exxon, Marlboro, or Peabody is going to self-select for certain types of people [late clarification: in leadership roles] and those people are simply not care about the wellbeing of others as much. I feel for the people highlighted in the article, and everybody wants to feed there family so I don't begrudge people working hard on land rigs in th…

> It should be clear that working at a fundamentally harmful company, like Exxon, Marlboro, or Peabody is going to self-select for certain types of people and those people are simply not care about the wellbeing of others as much. I don't really buy this. Have you seen Palantir's commitment to DEI?[0] How about Lockheed-Martin's commitment to the LGBT community?[1] On the flip side, I've heard plenty of people say In…

> Have you seen Palantir's commitment to DEI?

Two blog posts from January last year? Slow down there Palantir, you're making the rest of us look bad.

Re: Exxon’s Exodus

#67

Post by hindsightbias »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #28

It should be clear that working at a fundamentally harmful company, like Exxon, Marlboro, or Peabody is going to self-select for certain types of people [late clarification: in leadership roles] and those people are simply not care about the wellbeing of others as much. I feel for the people highlighted in the article, and everybody wants to feed there family so I don't begrudge people working hard on land rigs in th…

That’s how I feel about anyone who owns a car.

Re: Exxon’s Exodus

#68

Post by keeperoftruth »

Sounds like a company that sticks to its morals despite the pressure from youngens that would bankrupt them. From now on I'll try to buy only Exxon. It's good to know some companies have morals!

Re: Exxon’s Exodus

#69

Post by yc__away »

I've worked at Exxon through many of the events described by the article. I know some people say it sounds like a political jab, but the article is completely correct for the most part.

Exxon derailed regarding job security/attractiveness from 2019 onwards. Specially in the IT divisions. People were saying how underpaid they were compared to FAANG/Tech in general and the "leader" of the IT division (who has no background in Tech whatsoever) really told people to leave if they thing so highly of themselves. No apologies ever issued through what was a gross thing to say out loud.

Exxon's culture is indeed ridiculous (the whole safety first brainwash included) and the quality of its workers decrease by the day, as the company fails to address their needs/wants.

That being said, it is no secret oil/gas in necessary to keep our living standards, but goddammit, Exxon is a terrible place to work. Clueless VPs, Managers, Supervisors and Coworkers.

Re: Exxon’s Exodus

#70

Post by loldk »

stephenhuey wrote: post #63
UIUC_06 wrote: post #13

A dinosaur media company cheers on a dinosaur energy company's demise. > a culture that’s increasingly out of step with the world around it. Those interviewed describe an organization trapped in amber, whose insular and fear-based culture—once a beacon of corporate America—has become a drag on innovation, risk taking, and career satisfaction. It's a giant, old company, with 1000s of employees who were not at that tow…

I'm not going to defend either of those dinosaurs! However, I happen to know one prominent startup that used to be in Palo Alto has major problems with toxicity and tunnel vision and lack of meritocracy despite having only a few thousand employees (tiny next to Exxon, and makes even less per employee despite being a flagship SV firm whose chief asset is software), and there are plenty more Silicon Valley companies li…

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