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PayPal restores to its TOS $2,500 charge for any post they don't like

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Re: PayPal restores to its TOS $2,500 charge for any post they don't like

#71

Post by jpkoning »

The Grit Daily article cited in the linked-to tweet is fake news. It alleges that PayPal's proposed misinformation clause and associated $2500 penalty, which was cancelled by PayPal earlier this month, has been quietly "added back into the terms of service with equally ambiguous language."

This can be proven wrong with a quick check of PayPal's acceptable use policy in the WayBack Machine. The $2500 fine that the article alleges has been added back after "criticism on social media died down" has been there since 2021. [https://web.archive.org/web/20211013092233/https://www.paypa...]

As for article's allegation that a prohibition on intolerance has just been added this October, that clause been there since 2018. [https://web.archive.org/web/20181108164503/https://www.paypa...].

So there is no justification to the article's allegation that the clauses have been quietly added back to PayPal acceptable use policy.

Furthermore, in building its argument that the misinformation clause was sneakily "added back into the terms of service," the article erroneously makes the assumption that a prohibition on intolerance equates to a prohibition on misinformation. This doesn't follow.

I'm not trying to support PayPal's acceptable use policy. But if you're going to attack it, at least use facts.

Re: PayPal restores to its TOS $2,500 charge for any post they don't like

#72

Post by hlesesne »

I checked the internet archive (wayback machine) and don't see that the AUP has changed significantly in recent months. While I continue to disagree with PayPal's stance and ambiguous language, the article led me to believe that they'd snuck it back in. I don't see anything mentioning "mis-information" in the AUP, but there are still plenty of completely subjective language in the document.

It seems to be this garbage has been the same the whole time.

Re: PayPal restores to its TOS $2,500 charge for any post they don't like

#73

Post by cramjabsyn »

midoridensha wrote: post #35
Bellend wrote: post #14

I used to use paypal for everything but it occurred to me that I haven't used it since 2018. What niche does it support that direct payments don't? When I think of paypal, I think of delays.

It's really useful for small businesses that want to accept credit cards without having to get a full-blown merchant account. If your business is really tiny (like a little side project) and makes less than, say, $100k/year, a merchant account can be too expensive, plus setting up your website for the merchant account is much more difficult than PayPal integration, which is almost trivial (the simplest form is to jus…

There's square, stripe and others that aren't really any harder to integrate than paypal. The sign up process is slightly longer though

Re: PayPal restores to its TOS $2,500 charge for any post they don't like

#75

Post by Beltalowda »

minraws wrote: post #20
hobbitstan wrote: post #2

I cancelled my PayPal account after it was first announced a few weeks ago. This just makes me even more sure it wasn’t a ‘mistake’ on their part.

I am curious to understand the reasoning behind people saying it was a mistake, like how does something that big get past all the C-suites, F-suites and every other suite people of the company... Like I mean seriously was everyone blind!?

It could conceivable just be something like a developer using the wrong draft version, the lawyer accidentally sending the wrong version after a few rounds of back-and-forths over potential drafts, or some other fairly silly mix-up like that.

Of course calling it a "mistake" is more likely to be corporate spin and back-pedalling, but you can never be quite sure because the explanation could be true, and that's kind of the point of the spin.

Re: PayPal restores to its TOS $2,500 charge for any post they don't like

#76

Post by dsfyu404ed »

throwaway22032 wrote: post #66

How exactly do conditions like this work in practice? I can go ahead and write a ToS or even a contract that says "if you don't give me a blue M&M on Saturday 29 October 2022, you owe me $1M". I can get a client to sign it, perhaps it's part of my conditions as a freelancer. I can't realistically see any court enforcing that. As far as I can tell PayPal can only get away with this nonsense because they hold your mone…

>How exactly do conditions like this work in practice?

They take the money and bet on not enough people trying to sue and the terms being ironclad enough if they do that they get away with it in general even if they have to pay out a few times.

Re: PayPal restores to its TOS $2,500 charge for any post they don't like

#77

Post by ccvannorman »

mhb wrote: post #30
Ferrotin wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is right there in the second link: > (f) the promotion of hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory

Ah. OK. Thanks.

Prefaced with "You may not use the PayPal service for activities that:"

It's not as if they're looking at your HN posts for violations, only payment transactions.

Re: PayPal restores to its TOS $2,500 charge for any post they don't like

#78

Post by Test0129 »

willsmith72 wrote: post #59
Test0129 wrote: post #43

This is neither shocking, nor new. A decade ago I remember a friend who had a small business selling some niche collectors items. One day, he was scammed. The guy reported that the package was never delivered and, without even investigating, Paypal banned my friend's account and awarded the buyer their money back. Paypal has always, and will always be a shit company. Charging people $2,500 for wrongthink is simply as…

I guess you're not in Europe. Paypal is huge here, especially in Germany. Has been useful for years here for free instant transactions without currency conversion fees (at least between some euro currencies)

Interesting. I'd imagine here most of the apps people use for that (Cash app, Zelle, etc) are just frontends for Paypal.
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