Bumble releases open-source A.I. feature to help combat unsolicited nudes • Hacker News Board

Re: Bumble releases open-source A.I. feature to help combat unsolicited nudes

#231

Post by onetimeusename » Tue, Oct 25, 2022, 4:18 PM UTC

iwillbenice wrote: post #200

onetimeusename wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We will not share the content of User messages or information we derive from them with any third party. Isn't that what the SavedModel is that they shared on googleapis.com right here? https://storage.googleapis.com/private_detector/private_dete... edit: and for the record if your messages on a dating app are not E2E encrypted then you are making a terrible mistake. I can't believe anyone would voluntarily make this…

> edit: and for the record if your messages on a dating app are not E2E encrypted then you are making a terrible mistake. I can't believe anyone would voluntarily make this decision. Reality goes something like this: You roll out your E2EE dating app, it gets successful, you're winning bigly. Then cops show up with an order from a judge demanding you hand over information regarding user #890202 because they are suspe…

it's always that isn't it? They could go raid the guy's home perhaps. Alternatively you sent embarrassing messages to a woman on a dating app, you have a weird fetish you discussed with someone on there, you're cheating on your wife, or maybe some nation-state actor wants some blackmail on you. A hacker or disgruntled employee has dumped a database of all the messages and journalists and Twitter users are going through it right now. Or maybe you don't trust Bumble. They seem to have an axe to grind anyway.

Not that the issue of minors isn't a problem but I don't think that should always override people's privacy. And FWIW there is plenty of space for people to share compromising messages on the dating app before they can manage to convince a stranger to download Signal and continue the conversation there. That's if you're lucky enough that she doesn't immediately think you are a scammer of some kind.

I am on the side of privacy extremists but a lot of people find that to be a nonstarter so to each their own. I wouldn't dare go on a dating app that didn't have E2EE though or at least a way to anonymize yourself so no phone # required. ;)

Re: Bumble releases open-source A.I. feature to help combat unsolicited nudes

#232

Post by shadowgovt » Tue, Oct 25, 2022, 4:51 PM UTC

qubex wrote: post #226

shadowgovt wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the goal is to create a service with 100% uptake, one can't optimize for the minority position, especially if the majority finds it objectionable. So what you're looking for if you want something like that is a developer that is not optimizing to get 100% uptake. That's tricky to find, because the people with money always want 100% uptake.

It can’t have a target of “100% uptake” if it’s deliberately excluding some tiny but nonzero proportion of those who might otherwise subscribe. That’s the bombastic reply anyway. The more subtle and nuanced response is this is not a comparable situation because it’s not that developers are ignoring a small demographic, it’s that they’re deliberately working to make the environment actively hostile for that mini-demog…

> It can’t have a target of “100% uptake” if it’s deliberately excluding some tiny but nonzero proportion of those who might otherwise subscribe.

Targets are always aspirational. "100% uptake" just means "As many users as possible."

> they’re deliberately working to make the environment actively hostile for that mini-demographic.

Yes. This is because the larger demographic has made clear that they don't want to share the room with the other demographic and they will leave if forced to.

Re: Bumble releases open-source A.I. feature to help combat unsolicited nudes

#233

Post by yosito » Tue, Oct 25, 2022, 5:05 PM UTC

shadowgovt wrote: post #219

qubex wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of corse I’m aware that I’m representing a minority concern and I’m well aware that as matters and principles currently stand we’re in a mutually irreconcilable situation. I’m not saying every effort should be abandoned. I’m just saying that it would be mightily nice if those in decision making positions with regard to these issues and initiatives took the existence of this small and derided demographic into account…

When the goal is to create a service with 100% uptake, one can't optimize for the minority position, especially if the majority finds it objectionable. So what you're looking for if you want something like that is a developer that is not optimizing to get 100% uptake. That's tricky to find, because the people with money always want 100% uptake.

At one point, a promise of the internet was to optimize for the long tail of niche interests and viewpoints.

Re: Bumble releases open-source A.I. feature to help combat unsolicited nudes

#234

Post by iwillbenice » Tue, Oct 25, 2022, 5:05 PM UTC

onetimeusename wrote: post #231

iwillbenice wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> edit: and for the record if your messages on a dating app are not E2E encrypted then you are making a terrible mistake. I can't believe anyone would voluntarily make this decision. Reality goes something like this: You roll out your E2EE dating app, it gets successful, you're winning bigly. Then cops show up with an order from a judge demanding you hand over information regarding user #890202 because they are suspe…

it's always that isn't it? They could go raid the guy's home perhaps. Alternatively you sent embarrassing messages to a woman on a dating app, you have a weird fetish you discussed with someone on there, you're cheating on your wife, or maybe some nation-state actor wants some blackmail on you. A hacker or disgruntled employee has dumped a database of all the messages and journalists and Twitter users are going throu…

I think privacy-first is the the correct mental model to have. I've had to explain to some people that the usage of a certain platform by drug dealers, pedophiles, and organized violent crime isn't a defect, but really a feature in theory. If the tech or platform sucked/was-compromised, they wouldn't gravitate towards it. It is a weird conversation, but most people do seem to grok it in that sense.

Re: Bumble releases open-source A.I. feature to help combat unsolicited nudes

#235

Post by nebulousthree » Tue, Oct 25, 2022, 5:25 PM UTC

hombre_fatal wrote: post #211

DarkWiiPlayer wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you let users add an "is okay with nudes" flag, to their profile, then those who want could just consent to receiving unsolicited nudes while anyone else can have a safe experience free of unexpected sausage. I don't see how that is in any way less practical than outright blocking everything.

I imagine you’re a guy thinking about how you don’t mind a free pic of some sweet leche carriers landing in your inbox, but the only women who send unsolicited nudes are OnlyFans spammers.

Yes.. Go on..?

Re: Bumble releases open-source A.I. feature to help combat unsolicited nudes

#236

Post by DarkWiiPlayer » Tue, Oct 25, 2022, 5:33 PM UTC

hombre_fatal wrote: post #211

DarkWiiPlayer wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you let users add an "is okay with nudes" flag, to their profile, then those who want could just consent to receiving unsolicited nudes while anyone else can have a safe experience free of unexpected sausage. I don't see how that is in any way less practical than outright blocking everything.

I imagine you’re a guy thinking about how you don’t mind a free pic of some sweet leche carriers landing in your inbox, but the only women who send unsolicited nudes are OnlyFans spammers.

Surprisingly enough, you're wrong with nearly every single assumption you made in your comment, starting as far back as with me not even using any dating apps.

Re: Bumble releases open-source A.I. feature to help combat unsolicited nudes

#237

Post by panda-giddiness » Tue, Oct 25, 2022, 5:51 PM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #230

panda-giddiness wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yet, as rare as it might be, there are people of both genders who actually enjoy receiving unsolicited nudes. And people who enjoy sexual pickup lines. The judgement call of what is/isn't going to be attractive or appropriate ought be to left in the hands of the individuals dating as much as possible rather than controlled by a priest at a tech company. I don't understand. Are you suggesting that Bumble should allo…

They clearly are saying that one can provide a system that allows for it, but which also allows people to 'never' receive unsolicited nudes (by enabling the solicitation of acceptance of nudes). Why? He's suggesting some people like that and advocating for liberalism in this (invoking the idea that it is religious conservatism that leads companies to be averse to such things). It could be a setting.

> They clearly are saying

I didn't find their comment clear, hence my question.

Honestly, their comment feels closer to concern trolling than a genuine grievance (not to insinuate that they're arguing in bad faith, just that the problem is so minor in comparison). Sure, I suppose Bumble could implement a per-user flag instead (at the risk of introducing a plethora of OnlyFans spam, as someone pointed out), but Bumble's new filter is significantly better than the status quo. I truly can't emphasize this point enough. The OP is imagining there's some slim minority of users who are harmed by being unable to receive unsolicited nudes -- and I'm sure that group exists somewhere -- but frankly the largest group "harmed" by Bumble's filter are perverts who get off on sending unsolicited nudes to women.

The new filter is an unambiguous improvement.

Re: Bumble releases open-source A.I. feature to help combat unsolicited nudes

#238

Post by shadowgovt » Tue, Oct 25, 2022, 6:06 PM UTC

yosito wrote: post #233

shadowgovt wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the goal is to create a service with 100% uptake, one can't optimize for the minority position, especially if the majority finds it objectionable. So what you're looking for if you want something like that is a developer that is not optimizing to get 100% uptake. That's tricky to find, because the people with money always want 100% uptake.

At one point, a promise of the internet was to optimize for the long tail of niche interests and viewpoints.

I think the internet, as a whole, still does.

Individual pages and sites (even the mega-sized ones, like Facebook and Twitter) don't.

Re: Bumble releases open-source A.I. feature to help combat unsolicited nudes

#239

Post by monkpit » Tue, Oct 25, 2022, 6:08 PM UTC

deltasevennine wrote: post #210

monkpit wrote: post #194

The term “Cyberflashing” is ridiculous. It makes it sound innocent and cutesy. We already have a term for this, it’s sexual harassment.

sexual harassment is too extreme. 20 years of prison in some places. Cyber flashing is indeed the more appropriate term. I will be absolutely unequivocally clear about my opinion on this: Cyber flashing does not deserve jail time. It deserves being banned from bumble. Anyone who is so low and so cruel to jail someone for cyber flashing... that person is the one who deserves jail time. Also logistically you'd be jaili…

If you did this in public you’d be sent to jail. Why is it ok on the internet?

Unsolicited indecent exposure is sexual harassment.

Re: Bumble releases open-source A.I. feature to help combat unsolicited nudes

#240

Post by grammarnazzzi » Tue, Oct 25, 2022, 6:13 PM UTC

yosito wrote: post #130

I was permanently banned from Tinder for trying to upload a picture of myself holding a pepper from my garden. I can only assume that Tinder's AI thought the pepper looked like an unacceptable body part. I am absolutely in favor of using AI to combat unsolicited nudes as long as it's implemented something like: on the sender's side, show a warning before sending that the image appears to be in bad taste and asking fo…

> The judgement call of what is/isn't going to be attractive or appropriate ought be to left in the hands of the individuals dating as much as possible rather than controlled by a priest at a tech company.

Using a service doesn't entitle you to control how that service works.

As long as a service is lawful, the owner should be able to define "what is appropriate." Period.