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The Docker+WASM Technical Preview

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Re: The Docker+WASM Technical Preview

#111

Post by xeonmc »

timanglade wrote: post #92
lolinder wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still confused. This is the big thing I'm not really getting: > which allows you to build both traditional container apps, as well as Wasm apps I can already do that. Using Rust for the sake of example: `cargo build` can give me a WASM binary, and `docker build` can give me a container. Is Docker+WASM going to replace `cargo build`? Or is it going to wrap the WASM binary produced by cargo in another layer of abst…

> I'm just sincerely confused at what problem this technical preview is intended to solve. This is all good feedback, and we’ll definitely try to explain the added value better in the future. The main advantages we see in this technical preview are: 1. Easy, reproducible dev environment to quickly & reliably develop cloud/edge apps that target Wasm, or code frontend apps that target a Wasm backend (for example, as pa…

So putting it simply, it’s wasmtime with a “wasm-hub”, stapled onto docker?

And I guess dockerfile can serve as a wasm-playlist for stuffing a whole bunch of them in one container? Call it wasm-spotify

Re: The Docker+WASM Technical Preview

#112

Post by timanglade »

kodah wrote: post #109
timanglade wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Docker+Wasm" is just a shorthand for the Technical Preview build, which allows you to build both traditional container apps, as well as Wasm apps. Behind the scenes, we try to let Wasm apps be developed largely without interference from any container technology — just giving you a good local environment you can use to code against. That said, if you want, we do offer the ability to run Wasm apps within a Docker Comp…

It might be easier if you simplify it to, "We're trying not to be just the app you choose to run containers with. You can now use non-container runtimes like WASM."

Basically yes: if you get value out of Docker for container apps today, we think you’ll get value out of Docker for Wasm apps tomorrow.

Re: The Docker+WASM Technical Preview

#113

Post by fulafel »

vbezhenar wrote: post #71
qbasic_forever wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not run that go/rust/etc code natively on the machine though? Is there extra sandboxing, network/filesystem virtualization or anything gained by compiling to and running in a WASM environment?

One benefit of using wasm is architecture-agnostic binary. Right now you can't run x86 binary on ARM or vice-versa. So basically you need to build your containers twice if you have macbook people and x86 servers. And technically those are different images, so there's chance that you'll hit some non-trivial difference. With wasm everything could be simpler.

Docker Desktop can build and run x86 on ARM/OSX and that's how most people use it.

Re: The Docker+WASM Technical Preview

#114

Post by jammaloo »

timanglade wrote: post #107
heavyset_go wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why were they excited? What use cases does this address? Is the intention to containerize WASM binaries and manage them with Docker like you would any other container? Genuine questions, I'm just trying to understand what this feature is and why someone would want to use it.

I tried to answer this above[0]. Instead of trying to explain it again, I’d encourage you to give it a try[1], and if after going through the 5-minute tutorial you still don’t get the point then a) maybe we messed up (and I’ll be sorry for having wasted your time!) or b) maybe it’s not for you (and I’ll also be sorry I wasted your time). It took me a while to wrap my head around this Docker+Wasm thing too when I firs…

As a heads up, the download links to the technical preview builds of Docker seem to be incorrect on that page https://docs.docker.com/desktop/wasm/. The Windows, Mac OS Intel and Silicon each point to https://www.docker.com/download/wasm-preview/linuxamd64deb which is the linux build.

The article linked by the OP has the correct links.

Re: The Docker+WASM Technical Preview

#115

Post by [deleted] »

jammaloo wrote: post #114
timanglade wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried to answer this above[0]. Instead of trying to explain it again, I’d encourage you to give it a try[1], and if after going through the 5-minute tutorial you still don’t get the point then a) maybe we messed up (and I’ll be sorry for having wasted your time!) or b) maybe it’s not for you (and I’ll also be sorry I wasted your time). It took me a while to wrap my head around this Docker+Wasm thing too when I firs…

As a heads up, the download links to the technical preview builds of Docker seem to be incorrect on that page https://docs.docker.com/desktop/wasm/ . The Windows, Mac OS Intel and Silicon each point to https://www.docker.com/download/wasm-preview/linuxamd64deb which is the linux build. The article linked by the OP has the correct links.

[deleted]

Re: The Docker+WASM Technical Preview

#116

Post by llanowarelves »

saidinesh5 wrote: post #75
redox99 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain how WASM replaces containers? Let's say I have a backend API written in Java (spring boot). Containers basically solve two things, building and running the application. What does WASM solve here?

Wasm "solves" running your application in a shared environment. i.e not your machine but say a cloudflare machine, that has to run dozens of applications like yours. Without wasm, the unit of containerization for them is operating system process. Each process spins up a jvm that runs your app/backend API. With wasm, the unit of containerization is the exact functions of your backend API. So they can fit more "contain…

Wow. So moving "containerization" up the stack?

It is to containers what containers were to VMs?

If so, they need diagrams making that argument same way we all saw for containers vs VMs.

Re: The Docker+WASM Technical Preview

#117

Post by kodah »

timanglade wrote: post #112
kodah wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be easier if you simplify it to, "We're trying not to be just the app you choose to run containers with. You can now use non-container runtimes like WASM."

Basically yes: if you get value out of Docker for container apps today, we think you’ll get value out of Docker for Wasm apps tomorrow.

Seems promising. I think, based on what I read in this, that most folks don't know how challenging working with WASM is.

Re: The Docker+WASM Technical Preview

#118

Post by [deleted] »

timanglade wrote: post #47
syrusakbary wrote: post #39

This is great. We’ve been chatting with Docker for a little bit (I’m Syrus, from Wasmer) and it’s great to see that they are making progress on improving the developer experience around WebAssembly. However, I see Docker (and thus, Kubernetes) is as technologies of the past (I don’t intend to start any flamewar, I really believe this by heart). Metal compute (Web 1.0) lead to VMs which then lead to Containers (Web 2.…

Long live Wasm indeed! Obviously we feel a bit differently about Docker and k8s being in the past — Docker is used by 68% of professional developers according to the latest SO survey[0], and k8s is still growing in popularity at 28%. But obviously the technology landscape changes rapidly, and maybe one day (we hope) Wasm will be at 28%, 68% or higher. We’re frankly just excited about the possibilities, and wanted to…

[deleted]

Re: The Docker+WASM Technical Preview

#119

Post by discordance »

timanglade wrote: post #61
lolinder wrote: post #52

Does anyone have a good explanation for what Docker+WASM actually is? This announcement explains what WASM is and what Docker is, but I already knew both of those and am still confused about what Docker+WASM is. Is it just wrapping a WASM binary in a Docker container?

"Docker+Wasm" is just a shorthand for the Technical Preview build, which allows you to build both traditional container apps, as well as Wasm apps. Behind the scenes, we try to let Wasm apps be developed largely without interference from any container technology — just giving you a good local environment you can use to code against. That said, if you want, we do offer the ability to run Wasm apps within a Docker Comp…

Hi Tim from Docker

How about getting docker running in WASM so I can run containers in the browser?

Re: The Docker+WASM Technical Preview

#120

Post by woleium »

discordance wrote: post #119
timanglade wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Docker+Wasm" is just a shorthand for the Technical Preview build, which allows you to build both traditional container apps, as well as Wasm apps. Behind the scenes, we try to let Wasm apps be developed largely without interference from any container technology — just giving you a good local environment you can use to code against. That said, if you want, we do offer the ability to run Wasm apps within a Docker Comp…

Hi Tim from Docker How about getting docker running in WASM so I can run containers in the browser?

that's what I thought this was. I was disappointed.
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