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Accelerated forgetting of a trauma event after a single dose of hydrocortisone

nature.com

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Re: Accelerated forgetting of a trauma event after a single dose of hydrocortisone

#51

Post by canadiantim »

fellowniusmonk wrote: post #49
canadiantim wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the post sleep memory reconsolidation? My mom has severe PTSD that is causing memory and cognitive decline because all her resources are dedicated to fight or flight. She is just a ball of the most significant stress you can imagine and it’s destroying her. Have any recommendations or suggestions?

Basically the protocol is to be on a beta blocker and then recall the memory and explore it followed by normal sleep. This pulls the memory into short term storage and then when you sleep the memory will reconsolidate into long term storage but without the physiological adrenaline/stress response. I had some terrible experiences that provoked strong grief responses and it took several cycles of recall / reconsolidati…

Wow that sounds very powerful and a logical way to reduce the associated trauma from a memory. Good for you for working your way through that! And thanks for sharing.

For my moms case, she’s unfortunately buried whatever trauma it is that is causing her to eg always have her bags packed and ready to bolt such that I don’t think she can consciously identify a memory that has traumatized her. She doesn’t even think she has trauma (despite everyone having at least some trauma and her more than others). At this point she’s just put up all her defences and refuses to deal with the root of it. It’s ruining her psychologically and unfortunately negatively affects all those who are around her (considering she’s at 20/10 stress levels nearly all the time but she thinks that’s normal).

Thanks again for sharing what has been working for you. I’m trying desperately to find something that can help her become a functional human being again because I’ve been her full time caretaker for last couple years and now it’s killing me too. But perseverance they say, balanced with burn out.

Re: Accelerated forgetting of a trauma event after a single dose of hydrocortisone

#52

Post by atdrummond »

roywiggins wrote: post #41
gateaux wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. Do you happen to know what it was they gave her?

I believe midazolam can cause amnesia, it's not technically an anesthetic in the sense that it doesn't knock you out, but it's a sedative. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midazolam

Versed’s ads on radiology magazines literally say “For when they need to forget.”

Re: Accelerated forgetting of a trauma event after a single dose of hydrocortisone

#53

Post by dwringer »

fasthands9 wrote: post #35
duskwuff wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I guess my skepticism of this is a bit unpopular - but the way they measured intrusive thoughts is whether or not the people mentioned the traumatic film they saw in a journal for a week. That's a fair criticism. Doing research on real PTSD is tough -- everyone's experience is a little different, and is colored by their personal history -- and it'd be wildly unethical to put test subjects through an in-person exper…

Yeah. Perhaps its a bit unfair to pick out in the weeds details of the study. I guess maybe the core of my confusion comes with the term "intrusive" or "involuntary" memory. To me, in reference to PTSD, this sounds extremely negative. But perhaps you were in a situation where you saw someone die, perhaps even someone you know, should the goal be to only think about these things in therapy or when you sit down to medi…

People routinely cross the threshold from thinking about something and processing it on their own time into a state of nonproductive recurrence of said thoughts in which no real processing is done. Managing this kind of symptom is often the first step in successful long-term recovery; the goal of psychiatry is never just to sweep problems under the rug instead of helping patients process their world effectively.

Re: Accelerated forgetting of a trauma event after a single dose of hydrocortisone

#54

Post by tsimionescu »

jasec57322 wrote: post #15

Why is stress after trauma a 'disorder'? And how is it a solution to drug people up, making them forget this?

That's a bit like asking "why is pain after an injury a 'disorder'"?

Just like some people are left with persistent recurrent pain in an otherwise healthy and recovered limb (often known as rheumatism), some people are left with persistent recurrent stress after trauma - such as suddenly bursting out crying or cowering in fear after incidentally remembering trauma that happened 20 years ago while doing the dishes.

When this sort of thing happens, we call it "post-traumatic stress disorder", and are looking for ways to treat patients. Making them forget the event is one possible treatment, and there are others (such as trying to disassociate the event itself and the strong negative feelings).

Just like acute pain is useful to keep us healthy, acute stress is very important. But chronic pain and post-traumatic stress are not useful to anyone, they are failure modes of these otherwise useful systems, and it makes sense to try various ways of correcting them.

Re: Accelerated forgetting of a trauma event after a single dose of hydrocortisone

#55

Post by cantrevealname »

Traubenfuchs wrote: post #2

Combine with propranolol for maximum effect. A very overlooked drug that can be used in the treatment of many disorders related to anxiety, stress and fear. Without the risk of debiliating addiction benzos and benzolikes bring. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14573324/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3692719/

> propranolol [for] anxiety, stress and fear

I recall reading that propranolol reduces the physical manifestations of anxiety, stress and fear, but you still feel it internally. For example, when used for stage fright, you won't fidget, stutter, blush, sweat, and have a racing heart beat, but you'll still feel the anxiety inside yourself.

Re: Accelerated forgetting of a trauma event after a single dose of hydrocortisone

#56

Post by Traubenfuchs »

cantrevealname wrote: post #55
Traubenfuchs wrote: post #2

Combine with propranolol for maximum effect. A very overlooked drug that can be used in the treatment of many disorders related to anxiety, stress and fear. Without the risk of debiliating addiction benzos and benzolikes bring. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14573324/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3692719/

> propranolol [for] anxiety, stress and fear I recall reading that propranolol reduces the physical manifestations of anxiety, stress and fear, but you still feel it internally. For example, when used for stage fright, you won't fidget, stutter, blush, sweat, and have a racing heart beat, but you'll still feel the anxiety inside yourself.

No post body was provided.

Re: Accelerated forgetting of a trauma event after a single dose of hydrocortisone

#57

Post by franl »

canadiantim wrote: post #39
fellowniusmonk wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I've been on beta blockers for a heart defect for several years now. I read this paper about a year after going on them and just started exploring trauma on my own (stuff that made me weep or even pull face muscles in grief) the post sleep memory reconsolidation is basically a miracle and my emotional trauma responses were basically wrapped up within ~ 1 year. There is now nothing so awful I cannot touch, hold…

What is the post sleep memory reconsolidation? My mom has severe PTSD that is causing memory and cognitive decline because all her resources are dedicated to fight or flight. She is just a ball of the most significant stress you can imagine and it’s destroying her. Have any recommendations or suggestions?

Has she looked into EMDR therapy?

Re: Accelerated forgetting of a trauma event after a single dose of hydrocortisone

#58

Post by Traubenfuchs »

fellowniusmonk wrote: post #49
canadiantim wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the post sleep memory reconsolidation? My mom has severe PTSD that is causing memory and cognitive decline because all her resources are dedicated to fight or flight. She is just a ball of the most significant stress you can imagine and it’s destroying her. Have any recommendations or suggestions?

Basically the protocol is to be on a beta blocker and then recall the memory and explore it followed by normal sleep. This pulls the memory into short term storage and then when you sleep the memory will reconsolidate into long term storage but without the physiological adrenaline/stress response. I had some terrible experiences that provoked strong grief responses and it took several cycles of recall / reconsolidati…

The non pharmaceutical variant of exactly this would be using meditation. Which is a lot of effort.

Re: Accelerated forgetting of a trauma event after a single dose of hydrocortisone

#59

Post by regular »

Just beware that corticosteroids can destroy your vision: https://www.gov.uk/drug-safety-update/corticosteroids-rare-r...

Don't accept the irresponsible "rare" declaration, either. "Seldom-reported" is far more accurate and likely, given that CSR can be subtle. It takes a particularly knowledgable doctor to diagnose it, or a very persistent patient. When you combine those factors with the fraction of users who even have the wherewithal to go to an eye specialist in the first place, and the likelihood of the incident making it into a tracking database, you have the formula for a hugely under-reported malady that can ruin the quality of people's lives.

Patients should be apprised of all risks so they can weigh the benefits of the treatment, which may of course be deemed superior. The important part is that patients should always have the facts so they can make the choice.

Re: Accelerated forgetting of a trauma event after a single dose of hydrocortisone

#60

Post by zaroth »

khazhoux wrote: post #43
Traubenfuchs wrote: post #2

Combine with propranolol for maximum effect. A very overlooked drug that can be used in the treatment of many disorders related to anxiety, stress and fear. Without the risk of debiliating addiction benzos and benzolikes bring. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14573324/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3692719/

Ah, propranolol... how I wished it was a thing back when I was in school. I used to practice my instrument for hours every day, just to choke when performing a solo in front of an audience. Fast forward 20+ years, and I embarrass myself by freezing up during a VP review. That damn lizard brain! I finally got a prescription, and a full bottle of pills at the ready -- but I haven't tried it yet.

Hah, had me on the edge of my seat to hear the life altering impact, and then, bottle’s still on the shelf!

Here’s to hoping it works well next time you need it tho.

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