Google has most of my email because it has all of yours (2014) • Hacker News Board

Re: Google has most of my email because it has all of yours (2014)

#81

Post by justsomehnguy » Sun, Oct 23, 2022, 7:00 AM UTC

komali2 wrote: post #60

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it known that domain registrars are better than GMail in this regard? Not asking sarcastically, but I had my domain taken over by registrar(not released to public, just registrar took control of it) after few week of notice when auto renew failed to charge my credit card, and my credit card was working fine elsewhere. Also many registrar like Namecheap cancelled subscription for Russian customers during this invas…

But what's the alternative? Does SMTP even work without a domain? I dipped my toes in this far enough to connect a custom domain to a mailbox hosted by bluehost so I don't know too much but I always seek to separate from Google et al wherever possible. I thought the buck stops at DNS and domain registration though, short of like, that gnu internet project I vaguely remember, what's the alternative?

> Does SMTP even work without a domain

It is, but don't expecting people understand what komali@13.55.66.77 is a perfectly valid address, nor the anti-spam systems or designers of web/mail apps and services.

Re: Google has most of my email because it has all of yours (2014)

#82

Post by pkz » Sun, Oct 23, 2022, 7:09 AM UTC

Brajeshwar wrote: post #49

I think this is everywhere. In India, people in the departments, especially the Governments usually ask, "What is your Gmail?" Almost everyone uses Gmail here and it is extremely rare to find their own custom domain. I'm actually surprised that the Government Departments do not have a service that takes care of these! They will fine Google but almost all of the government email IDs are Gmail. I was one of those that…

It would be interesting to know how many of government agencies use Google email services? Is the email interaction between citizen and state now predominantly in the hands of a foreign third party?

Re: Google has most of my email because it has all of yours (2014)

#83

Post by SXX » Sun, Oct 23, 2022, 7:09 AM UTC

open-source-ux wrote: post #69

The popularity of ChromeOS in US schools means millions of kids require Gmail accounts (since ChromeOS requires sign-in the OS to full use). It's probably true to say that almost every school kid in the US has been captured by Google's embrace. The 'tech community' have little to say on the matter. In fact, developers are more likely to defend Google rather than question unprecedented levels of data collection.

AFAIK you can have Google Account with your own email without using GMail. Isnt such account work for ChromeOS?

From what I can tell they are fully featured accounts with only mail service being missing. Am I wrong?

Re: Google has most of my email because it has all of yours (2014)

#84

Post by asim » Sun, Oct 23, 2022, 7:11 AM UTC

The discussion around email continues to come up time and time again. It yields significant power, it's your online identity effectively, used to access, communicate and unlock everything. We all have some level of discomfort with someone else owning the infrastructure for this having seen what happens if you get locked out. What is the answer? Is it really self hosting? Such a subpar experience. Consumers can't be expected to do that. Maybe it's about moving to something else with backwards compatibility with email but a system you can never be shut out of. If you're stuck with a @gmail.com domain, it's tough, but maybe the switch would be worth it in time.

Maybe it's like rent vs buy in real estate. There's no beating owning your own home. Costs more but no one can kick you out unless you stop paying your mortgage. You own it, it's your address, it holds all your possessions. But you don't build the house, someone else does, you just pay for it.

Re: Google has most of my email because it has all of yours (2014)

#85

Post by texaslonghorn5 » Sun, Oct 23, 2022, 7:14 AM UTC

open-source-ux wrote: post #69

The popularity of ChromeOS in US schools means millions of kids require Gmail accounts (since ChromeOS requires sign-in the OS to full use). It's probably true to say that almost every school kid in the US has been captured by Google's embrace. The 'tech community' have little to say on the matter. In fact, developers are more likely to defend Google rather than question unprecedented levels of data collection.

This is false, most schools are using active directory SSO which happens to use Google for Education but could easily be migrated. In fact, many places have Microsoft 365 and Google working at the same time under the same SSO. Yes they are using "Gmail accounts" but that's a far cry from @gmail.com accounts.

Re: Google has most of my email because it has all of yours (2014)

#86

Post by webmobdev » Sun, Oct 23, 2022, 7:14 AM UTC

bagels wrote: post #22

Let's say theoretically I did a gdpr request to Google to delete my emails, do they have to delete the counterparty copy?

I doubt it - when you send an email to someone, they also have the rights to store it in their inbox.

Re: Google has most of my email because it has all of yours (2014)

#87

Post by justsomehnguy » Sun, Oct 23, 2022, 7:21 AM UTC

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #58

cglan wrote: post #26

Having your own email/domain isn’t about privacy. Email has become essentially the key to almost everything in modern life. If I lose access to my email I lose access to basically everything I own and it would be a massive hassle to switch emails. Banks, schools, apps, etc. Often times these services won’t even let you change to a new email if you don’t have access to an existing one. Some use email as 2factor. It’s…

> Who hosts your email matters less With my own domain being hosted by Google Legacy Workspace or whatever they call it, I've been wondering about this, and wondering if there has there any evidence of Google cutting off an entire domain randomly. To deal with that possibility I've been thinking what the easiest and most reliable way of providing a "failover" for my domain's mail is. Has anyone dealt with this succes…

Buy Fastmail account (seriously, they should pay us money for advertising them so much).

In your DNS/registrar settings add Fastmail as a secondary MX, disable DKIM and SPF.

Customize it for your needs (necessary mailboxes/addresses/identities etc).

Switch over primary MX to FM (maybe keeping G as a secondary for a week).

Somewhat optional, but requires some effort - make G send any incoming email to some address not on your domain. You can buy some temp domain and slap it to FM too, it doesn't matter, except you would have two copies of mails for migration time.

After mails start to flow to FM reliably (not from Google) remove G. from MX records completely.

At this point you would know if something is wrong if some mail would be routed through G. instead of FM (by receiving them to that forwading address).

If everything is okay - remove your G. workplace so it has no chance to mess things up.

Before that move your mail from G to FM. If it's only thousands - even connecting Outlook (and maybe Thunderbird?) to both through IMAP and drag and drop mails from one account to another would work. If it's millions... clean up it first. You don't need news on newest sales from 2014.

PS I'm not moved out from my Gmail account but I culled things there HARD. I also moved everything worthy (notably - registrars and mail providers) to my personal domain mail addresses. If I lose it - it wouldn't be that painful anymore.

Re: Google has most of my email because it has all of yours (2014)

#88

Post by highwaylights » Sun, Oct 23, 2022, 7:26 AM UTC

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #42

cglan wrote: post #26

Having your own email/domain isn’t about privacy. Email has become essentially the key to almost everything in modern life. If I lose access to my email I lose access to basically everything I own and it would be a massive hassle to switch emails. Banks, schools, apps, etc. Often times these services won’t even let you change to a new email if you don’t have access to an existing one. Some use email as 2factor. It’s…

Is it known that domain registrars are better than GMail in this regard? Not asking sarcastically, but I had my domain taken over by registrar(not released to public, just registrar took control of it) after few week of notice when auto renew failed to charge my credit card, and my credit card was working fine elsewhere. Also many registrar like Namecheap cancelled subscription for Russian customers during this invas…

I see this advice (that you should use a custom domain) and it makes me a bit hesitant in that I’m not sure I necessarily trust a registrar more than I trust Google not to allow phishing/hijack/deletion.

That said there’s really two issues if you seperate out the inbox - access to new emails, and access to the historical emails you’ve accumulated. The second can be partially helped by downloading all mail + attachments from the server and keeping a backup.

The first is more complicated either way you look at it.

Re: Google has most of my email because it has all of yours (2014)

#89

Post by MrPatan » Sun, Oct 23, 2022, 7:31 AM UTC

Unencrypted email is not private, never has been, never will be.

The real problem is handing over your digital identity to Google, not the content of emails.

Re: Google has most of my email because it has all of yours (2014)

#90

Post by pmontra » Sun, Oct 23, 2022, 7:47 AM UTC

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #42

cglan wrote: post #26

Having your own email/domain isn’t about privacy. Email has become essentially the key to almost everything in modern life. If I lose access to my email I lose access to basically everything I own and it would be a massive hassle to switch emails. Banks, schools, apps, etc. Often times these services won’t even let you change to a new email if you don’t have access to an existing one. Some use email as 2factor. It’s…

Is it known that domain registrars are better than GMail in this regard? Not asking sarcastically, but I had my domain taken over by registrar(not released to public, just registrar took control of it) after few week of notice when auto renew failed to charge my credit card, and my credit card was working fine elsewhere. Also many registrar like Namecheap cancelled subscription for Russian customers during this invas…

Anybody can read my email, it's cleartext after all. ISP, registar, etc. I pay for my email as part of my yearly domain fee: 2 domains (personal and self employed work), 2 registars. I download them over POP3, store them locally in Thunderbird, backup them locally (encrypted disk) and remotely (duplicity, can't even remember, too early in the morning.) This protects me against some attacks, not against everything. The only online services I really care about are banks. Everything else is disposable. I call my customers, give them a new Google and AWS account, that's it. Or ask them to create an account for me until I sort out the problem. Protecting against state level actors is a different thing. No plans for that. After all they can knock my door and deal with me in person.