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Thanks to the Israeli accessibility law, I have to delete my websites

lifemichael.com

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Re: Thanks to the Israeli accessibility law, I have to delete my websites

#271

Post by comte7092 »

TheNorthman wrote: post #249
Vt71fcAqt7 wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you expect that?

I mean, aside from the obvious principle of reasonable accommodation guaranteed by the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities? Or, perhaps more specifically the guarantee from Article 19, barring segregation from the community at large? Expecting the declarations on human rights to be followed is not unreasonable.

“Principle of "reasonable accommodation" The Convention defines "reasonable accommodation" as "necessary and appropriate modification and adjustments not imposing a disproportionate or undue burden, where needed in a particular case, to ensure to persons with disabilities the enjoyment or exercise on an equal basis with others” [0]

Suing every hole in the wall out of business is hardly in line with reasonable accommodation.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_the_Rights_of_Pe...

Re: Thanks to the Israeli accessibility law, I have to delete my websites

#272

Post by threatofrain »

anaisbetts wrote: post #108
knaekhoved wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Citation needed?

We should also have citations for all positions, for example that disability access does not reduce access, such as in the case of UC Berkeley removing 20,000 free video courses. Making things more expensive is also a kind of loss of access; but we must have empiricism to know the weight of this argument and not merely that there may be some legitimacy behind it.

Re: Thanks to the Israeli accessibility law, I have to delete my websites

#273

Post by comte7092 »

dereg wrote: post #269
comte7092 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it actually confuse you or is that a rhetorical question? On the one have you have global manufacturers being required to switch from one well established standard to another, it’s a requirement that barely touches on their resources as a firm and has more to do with their business strategy. Contrast that with organizations that are likely well meaning but barely have the technical competence to put up and maint…

Do you see how many qualifiers you added to this? What if it significantly touches on their resources as a firm? What if the company is “global” but revenue is primarily domestic? It’s always easy to carve these lines in the sand ex post facto. Good legislation lays out a set on consistent principles and enforcements, ex ante.

Hacker news commenters are not legislators, it is therefore entirely reasonable for commenters to draw those lines however they see fit for the purposes of discussion.

Further, it is drawing lines on the basis of number of employees/operating revenue/etc (the use of the word “global” in this case is clearly a colloquial reference to a very large firm along these metrics), is already a very common and well understood basis for drawing such lines, so such and insinuation on your part that this is some ex post facto finger pointing is without serious grounding.

Re: Thanks to the Israeli accessibility law, I have to delete my websites

#274

Post by josephcsible »

ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #256
db48x wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A thing which isn’t accessible still has value. If a new law causes the thing to be destroyed rather than be made accessible, then the new law is a bad one.

You are a public university with students who have a wide variety of skin colors. 27 years ago a law is put into effect that forbids discrimination based on skin color. The toilets on your campus, which you have kept untouched for 27 years since the law passed, have a sign at the entrance that says "whites-only". Which of these options do you feel is right: 1) Pay someone to take down the sign 2) Condemn the toilet 3…

If captioning videos were as easy and cheap as taking down a sign, then these would be equivalent.

Re: Thanks to the Israeli accessibility law, I have to delete my websites

#275

Post by TheNorthman »

Vt71fcAqt7 wrote: post #264
TheNorthman wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, aside from the obvious principle of reasonable accommodation guaranteed by the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities? Or, perhaps more specifically the guarantee from Article 19, barring segregation from the community at large? Expecting the declarations on human rights to be followed is not unreasonable.

should all resturants also be vegan? Nut free? We don't want to segregate, right? Nobody "deserves" to go to a resturant.

Is being vegan a disability?

Regarding nuts, I don't know about the rest of the world but in my country, restaurants are required to disclose allergens in their foods, if asked.

Re: Thanks to the Israeli accessibility law, I have to delete my websites

#276

Post by bombcar »

BoorishBears wrote: post #228
Dylan16807 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider that for certain kinds of video (one or two people, minimal editing, not in english), subtitles could cost ten times as much as the video itself.

Well yeah, it doesn't hurt that the video itself extremely cheap... The point of the law is that it should be the cost of doing business once you reach a certain size (in this case 500 users). No one is making you subtitle your class presentation. In fact I went to confirm the 500 user rule, the law was actually updated specifically to carve out extensive exceptions based on revenue. A website needs to make 30k a yea…

Yeah, this case seems to be a business trying to get around subtitling the “free classes” because they make money on the paid classes. The loophole of only doing a particular class under 500 won’t work for them I suspect as the business would still be making the money (if it wasn’t this wouldn’t currently apply).

> 4) A business that makes 100,000 – 300,000 NIS per year has an exemption until 2020 and has to make an accessibility declaration and make at least the contact form accessible.

This probably is the exemption that expired.

Re: Thanks to the Israeli accessibility law, I have to delete my websites

#277

Post by slyall »

camillomiller wrote: post #265
angst_ridden wrote: post #65

There's a firm in Southern California that's suing restaurants / small theaters / community organizations / etc after bulk-scanning web sites for embedded video that lack links to caption files. It's all ADA abuse, lawsuits in the $5k-$7k range. A huge percentage of those sued don't have the means to fight back, and settle. The company that's suing people had some incompetent coder write their scanner, so it only par…

Currently in Germany there’s a wave of lawyers letters making the rounds. They claim a website violates the privacy of some dummy client when they accessed the website and their IP was transmitted to Google’s servers to download Google Fonts from the cloud. I’ve been putting in some extra hours this week to help scared clients localize their Google Fonts. The wave started after an half-assed sentence from a court in…

I have a small website that happens to be hosted in Germany since a German company donated a server.

We had to add an "Impressum" with our contact details to make sure we didn't get hit with a letter demanding money from one of the law firms that specialise in shaking down sites that are missing them.

Re: Thanks to the Israeli accessibility law, I have to delete my websites

#278

Post by ad404b8a372f2b9 »

josephcsible wrote: post #274
ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are a public university with students who have a wide variety of skin colors. 27 years ago a law is put into effect that forbids discrimination based on skin color. The toilets on your campus, which you have kept untouched for 27 years since the law passed, have a sign at the entrance that says "whites-only". Which of these options do you feel is right: 1) Pay someone to take down the sign 2) Condemn the toilet 3…

If captioning videos were as easy and cheap as taking down a sign, then these would be equivalent.

It's a load-bearing sign, either way not important to the allegory I don't know anyone who would defend options 2 or 3 under any circumstances.

In this scenario you also have 27 years to amortize the costs, enroll 40000 students every year who pay tuition and are ready to do free labour, receive 100 million dollars worth of donations every year, and over the course of these years completed a 2 billion, then a 3 billion dollars fund raising campaign.

Re: Thanks to the Israeli accessibility law, I have to delete my websites

#279

Post by TheNorthman »

comte7092 wrote: post #271
TheNorthman wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, aside from the obvious principle of reasonable accommodation guaranteed by the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities? Or, perhaps more specifically the guarantee from Article 19, barring segregation from the community at large? Expecting the declarations on human rights to be followed is not unreasonable.

“Principle of "reasonable accommodation" The Convention defines "reasonable accommodation" as "necessary and appropriate modification and adjustments not imposing a disproportionate or undue burden, where needed in a particular case, to ensure to persons with disabilities the enjoyment or exercise on an equal basis with others” [0] Suing every hole in the wall out of business is hardly in line with reasonable accommo…

> Suing every hole in the wall out of business is hardly in line with reasonable accommodation.

Suing is the enforcement mechanism chosen by the Israelis and the US, not the reasoning behind the requirement. The reasoning is: The disabled should have equal access to dining and it's not an undue burden to expect ramps outside of businesses. Most of the developed world is like this.

You might disagree with that reasoning but clearly a political majority in the US didn't and doesn't.

Re: Thanks to the Israeli accessibility law, I have to delete my websites

#280

Post by bombcar »

michaelmrose wrote: post #186
bombcar wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Autogeneration for non-English languages often is relatively bad or simply doesn't exist at all. Imagine having to record your post in American sign language before being allowed to post it on Hacker News. At some point it becomes silly.

On that topic I've always wondered about official presentations where the program splits the screen between the actual speaker and a person signing. Seems like that would only be useful for deaf people actually at the event whereas deaf people could be better served by captions.

Some localities require a signer (city council meetings for example) but don’t require captioning (and vice versa). Live captioning is more expensive than “after the fact” captioning, of course.
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