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Living descendants of Mark Antony

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Re: Living descendants of Mark Antony

#11

Post by tinco »

Plot twist at the end there, as the author of the article is themselves a prince of the family of living descendants of Mark Anthony. Although he's pretty humble about it before breaking the news it did make me double take.

To me the amazing thing is that they managed to hold on to both power and money for so long. It took 1800 years for them to lose power, and 200 years later they're still sending their princes to Princeton.

edit: sorry Princeton highschool, I've got to hand it to them that this high school essay is more well written and polished than anything I ever handed in..

Re: Living descendants of Mark Antony

#12

Post by pmontra »

e2021 wrote: post #9
Bud wrote: post #5

It's "Mark Antony". Spell check!

Isn't the actual name Marcus Antonius? I wonder why we use the anglicised version for him, but the latin names for most other Romans

Maybe for the same reason the names of famous cities (especially if already famous in the past) are translated into foreign languages.

Examples.

Roma is Rome in English and Milano is Milan.

London is Londra in Italian but Manchester is Manchester and Liverpool is Liverpool.

Livorno (a small Italian town where English poets liked to spend their time) is Leghorn.

Aachen (a German city that used to be the residence of Charlemagne) is Acquisgrana in Italian.

Nobody has been translating city names anymore but Londra is going to stay. Aachen is not very famous but probably Acquisgrana is even less so. I should check current history books of schools.

Re: Living descendants of Mark Antony

#13

Post by hinkley »

pmontra wrote: post #12
e2021 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the actual name Marcus Antonius? I wonder why we use the anglicised version for him, but the latin names for most other Romans

Maybe for the same reason the names of famous cities (especially if already famous in the past) are translated into foreign languages. Examples. Roma is Rome in English and Milano is Milan. London is Londra in Italian but Manchester is Manchester and Liverpool is Liverpool. Livorno (a small Italian town where English poets liked to spend their time) is Leghorn. Aachen (a German city that used to be the residence of C…

I still want someone to explain how Firenze got rendered as Florence.

Re: Living descendants of Mark Antony

#14

Post by jl6 »

If the average age of giving birth is 25, Mark Antony would be about 80 generations ago. With each generation back doubling the number of ancestors (2 parents, 4 grandparents, …), this person has a theoretical 2^80 ancestors - somewhat more than the number of people that have ever lived. So clearly that logic is flawed, and the family tree must in fact be a family web - but potentially a very, very wide one.

I wouldn’t be surprised if a large portion of the population of Italy were also descendants of Mark Antony, albeit without the famous lineage to prove it.

Re: Living descendants of Mark Antony

#15

Post by LarsDu88 »

jl6 wrote: post #14

If the average age of giving birth is 25, Mark Antony would be about 80 generations ago. With each generation back doubling the number of ancestors (2 parents, 4 grandparents, …), this person has a theoretical 2^80 ancestors - somewhat more than the number of people that have ever lived. So clearly that logic is flawed, and the family tree must in fact be a family web - but potentially a very, very wide one. I wouldn…

This is the correct answer. The entire population of Europe is about as descended from Mark Antony as that Georgian noble house. Only the Y-chromosome is lineally passed across such long time spans

Re: Living descendants of Mark Antony

#16

Post by thaumasiotes »

tinco wrote: post #11

Plot twist at the end there, as the author of the article is themselves a prince of the family of living descendants of Mark Anthony. Although he's pretty humble about it before breaking the news it did make me double take. To me the amazing thing is that they managed to hold on to both power and money for so long. It took 1800 years for them to lose power, and 200 years later they're still sending their princes to P…

> Plot twist at the end there, as the author of the article is themselves a prince of the family of living descendants of Mark Anthony.

That's not a plot twist. It's a strategy as old as civilization itself, probably older. It's mentioned right at the front of the piece:

> In Ancient Greek and Roman cultures, having a distinguished family lineage determined your social standing. This practice has continued to exist within hierarchical societies to this day. Furthermore, many royal houses throughout history have claimed descent from ancient ruling dynasties and from famous figures both demonstrably historical (Alexander the Great, for example) and mythical (such as Hercules, Venus or Aeneas) to solidify their monarchical claim.

It's entirely possible they are living descendants of Mark Antony, but if they are, so is every other person in the vicinity of the Mediterranean.

Re: Living descendants of Mark Antony

#17

Post by eesmith »

hinkley wrote: post #13
pmontra wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe for the same reason the names of famous cities (especially if already famous in the past) are translated into foreign languages. Examples. Roma is Rome in English and Milano is Milan. London is Londra in Italian but Manchester is Manchester and Liverpool is Liverpool. Livorno (a small Italian town where English poets liked to spend their time) is Leghorn. Aachen (a German city that used to be the residence of C…

I still want someone to explain how Firenze got rendered as Florence.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/Florence

> The city name is from Roman Colonia Florentia, "flowering colony," either literal or figurative, and became Old Italian Fiorenze, modern Italian Firenze.

https://italyinview.com/italian-places/italian-cities/floren... elaborates:

> The Romans were the founders of Florence. Realizing the importance of a thoroughfare towards the Po plain, Ceasar in 59 B.C. ordered the establishment of a colony on the north bank of the Arno. The foundation is thought to have taken place in the spring, during the Floral Games, or Ludi Florales: hence the name Florentia, which was given to the city. Flora was the goddess of flowers and gardens, and the mother of spring in Roman mythology. Tuscan dialect turned the Latin Florentia into Fiorenza — a name which is to be found on Renaissance frescoes, and which was later shortened to Firenze.

Re: Living descendants of Mark Antony

#19

Post by OJFord »

hinkley wrote: post #13
pmontra wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe for the same reason the names of famous cities (especially if already famous in the past) are translated into foreign languages. Examples. Roma is Rome in English and Milano is Milan. London is Londra in Italian but Manchester is Manchester and Liverpool is Liverpool. Livorno (a small Italian town where English poets liked to spend their time) is Leghorn. Aachen (a German city that used to be the residence of C…

I still want someone to explain how Firenze got rendered as Florence.

Well or Londra? The Romans called it Londinium, so you might expect the modern Italian to be ..(I'm no expert on how Italian has modified endings).. 'Londinia' or 'Londino' or something.

It's Londres in French which seems related, I wonder where they came from though.

Re: Living descendants of Mark Antony

#20

Post by thaumasiotes »

kitd wrote: post #10

Is this a world record for proven genealogy? I read somewhere that the British monarchy held the record tracing back to mid-Saxon times. This blows that out of the water by about 600 years.

> Is this a world record for proven genealogy? I read somewhere that the British monarchy held the record tracing back to mid-Saxon times.

China did not have a dark age and so descent from antiquity is relatively common there. According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_tree_of_Confucius_in_th... , 80 generations of the family of Confucius have been recorded.

What would qualify this as "proven" to you?

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