Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

ubuntu.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

321–330 of 370 posts

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#321

Post by phendrenad2 »

Barrin92 wrote: post #317
phendrenad2 wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm so tired of seeing people say that there's "hate" toward something simply because people criticize it. There's NO hate toward Ubuntu. There are criticisms. Criticism is not hate. Hate is not criticism.

if the criticism is mindless and disproportionate I think hate is a fair label. Nobody on earth can tell me they care about a single line of text advertising a premium service of the application they are currently using which is provided to them for free. Ubuntu has always received a strange amount of lowbrow criticism probably because it's one of the dominant distros in the linux space. I remember how everyone despi…

> Nobody on earth can tell me they care about a single line of text advertising

Why do you think this is unlikely? People care about a lot of different things. Have you asked people what about it bothers them, rather than dismissing them immediately?

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#322

Post by pikelet »

midoridensha wrote: post #293
echelon wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snap makes sense, but it'll take time for the dust to settle. Just like Unity / Wayland. Applications like Firefox, IntelliJ, Chromium, etc. shouldn't be tied to system dependencies managed by apt. They should be entirely monolithic and hermetic. Long term this deb vs snap approach will make sense and be good for Desktop Linux.

>Snap makes sense, but it'll take time for the dust to settle. Just like Unity / Wayland. How much time? We've been waiting for over 10 years for the dust to settle with Wayland.

I've been using Wayland happily for the last few years. I'm missing colour management but I know it's (slowly) being worked on and I can wait, as everything else I need works better than it did for me under X11. Can't say the same for Snap. Wayland has become progressively better over the years. Snap just seems to get progressively more intrusive as they force it more and more. Longstanding complaints go unaddressed. Flatpak has been more or less pleasant. Feels very similar to the Mir/Wayland days to me.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#323

Post by elcritch »

echelon wrote: post #278
bayindirh wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people are unaware that "so naming" [0] solves multiple versions of the same library problem. My Debian installation regularly has two or three versions of the same library (e.g. libx264) installed while packages update and start to use newer versions of the same library. [0]: https://tldp.org/HOWTO/Program-Library-HOWTO/shared-librarie...

The point is that some apps should be 100% hermetic and not have package dependencies whatsoever. The browser is a prime example.

I don’t know. I sorta like my browser to be able to use my system fonts. Snap and friends appear to struggle with that.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#324

Post by makapuf »

echelon wrote: post #278
bayindirh wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people are unaware that "so naming" [0] solves multiple versions of the same library problem. My Debian installation regularly has two or three versions of the same library (e.g. libx264) installed while packages update and start to use newer versions of the same library. [0]: https://tldp.org/HOWTO/Program-Library-HOWTO/shared-librarie...

The point is that some apps should be 100% hermetic and not have package dependencies whatsoever. The browser is a prime example.

You said that several times but why is that? What programs should be isolated and why are those not a static binary installed and updated with apt?

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#325

Post by 6510 »

eagsalazar2 wrote: post #289
eagsalazar2 wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

jeeze please stop! e.g. and i.e. both have come to interchangeably and loosely mean "for example" in the very broadest interpretation. Why? Because way back when people who wrote those things did agree on a specific and distinct meaning for each, a lot of other people who didn't share that understanding co-opted those abbreviations to mean "for example". That interpretation has now exploded in popularity. At this poi…

And, in case you think I'm being pedantic here, I'm not making a stink just because I think you are misguided, I'm making a stink because grammar prissiness is a favorite pastime of liberals (which I am BTW) but the real social impact of grammar prissiness is social classism (putting it nicely) and gross racism (putting it less nicely). You nitpick the grammar of your fellow tech bros on HN (which I also am) but when…

The proper way is to down vote everything that isn't about Ubuntu.

We are all wrong.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#326

Post by daza »

Have they solved mouse scroll speed issue? As far as I know, you have to do some nasty tricks to adjust in certain type of applications. It works horribly with high dpi monitors though.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#327

Post by bayindirh »

echelon wrote: post #278
bayindirh wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people are unaware that "so naming" [0] solves multiple versions of the same library problem. My Debian installation regularly has two or three versions of the same library (e.g. libx264) installed while packages update and start to use newer versions of the same library. [0]: https://tldp.org/HOWTO/Program-Library-HOWTO/shared-librarie...

The point is that some apps should be 100% hermetic and not have package dependencies whatsoever. The browser is a prime example.

I don't think user facing programs needs to be hermetic. If you want to limit behavior of a software there's always AppArmor and SELinux.

Trying to make a set of applications can't interact on an (desktop) environment which built on the promise of cooperation and inter-application communication is backwards from my perspective.

I understand that the browser is a significant vector for attacks, but there are other and more elegant ways to counter these attacks, and these can be layered from application itself to kernel and to hardware. This layered approach is more integrated, universal and applicable to a broader surface area in the OS and application stack.

     Romanticizing isolation and immutability, trying to apply it everywhere in the software stack is a big step backwards in usability and productivity. These technologies are useful in some (and mostly in) server/service scenarios. Trying to apply these principles to everywhere is akin to only having a hammer and seeing everything as a nail. Just because they're easy, they're not the correct and best solution for anything and everything. Maybe we shouldn't be that lazy and try to create more useful and transparent user sandboxes built on cgroups, SELinux and AppArmor, and works with the package managers or traditional distro layouts seamlessly.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#328

Post by Zardoz84 »

thomaslord wrote: post #116
compsciphd wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to defend snap with the idea that it makes sense for some apps, i.e. "firefox" where updating firefox while its running is bad news. Except, snap can't update applications while they are running! i.e. try to do a snap refresh while firefox is running, nothing to update, because its running, quit it wait for all processes to die and then refresh, and it will update and cause you to wait 30-60s while it does it,…

Firefox is a particularly interesting case because it has a bunch of issues that only exist when it's installed via snap. I just recently ripped out the default snap version and installed via the official PPA, and Firefox seems to be running much smoother now. For basically any app I use that's installed via snap, I eventually run into a gamebreaking issue and have to remove the snap version and find a normal .deb to…

Also, there is the funny thing that when you updated to 22.04 and Firefox it's replaced by the snap version, you lose access to your previous Firefox account on the computer! The account isn't deleted... If you remove the snap version and install the normal version from a PPA, you get back your account with all the settings.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#329

Post by brnt »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #207
brnt wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus codecs, plus font rendering, plus cutting edge being too cutting edge sometimes. Like I said, FLOSS devs don't rely on closed blobs so they don't have this problem.

> codecs Most websites people care about use open codecs these days (Google and Netflix use VP9 and AV1, both are open and royalty-free). Never had an issue with font rendering. And cutting edge being too cutting edge might be an issue with some dev things but having up to date Gnome and apps is fine.

People care about fans spinning up and batteries draining. Video not being hardware accelerated is a bad ootb experience and the type of reason Ubuntu became so big.
Post reply on HN