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Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

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Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#291

Post by matt_trentini »

VLM wrote: post #220

The micropython support is interesting; most activity is on circuitpython but micropython supports older chips (the ESP8266 and the very first OG original ESP32 are two examples of hardware I have on my desk). They both work, its just the odds are vastly higher of finding a library for circuit rather than micro and there's probably ten circuit python users for every micropython user. Although I "have to" use both. I…

I'm genuinely curious how you've determined that "most activity" is on CircuitPython? I'm close to both projects and they are both highly active. MicroPython tends to be lower-level and a little more under-the-radar, especially since Adafruit provides such a focal point to CircuitPython (and do a great job with it!).

As for libraries; there's a whole lot of MicroPython libs listed on awesome-micropython.com and, if you need to use a CP library in MP, it's often trivial to port.

I was a little surprised to see MicroPython mentioned at all here since there's not really much that Ubuntu is doing to provide that support. I guess it was to refer to the popular RPi Pico, which has official support with MicroPython. CircuitPython support is becoming very close to parity on the Pico though.

(I'm not sure what you mean wrt UF2 on ESP32-S2; it has always worked fine for me? I just tried it again and there were no issues. Note that - unlike the Pico - the UF2 bootloader is not in ROM so you have to install it first.)

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#292

Post by theamk »

talideon wrote: post #271
theamk wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is snap enough of improvent over deb to replace it? Sometimes yes. Is snap enough of improvement of Flakpak to ignore community standard and deal witb all the user hostile craziness like non-removable updater? No way. I hope it goes the way of the Mir and upstart - replaced with a competitor and silently removed.

Upstart predates systemd by four years. It solved real problems at the time and they kept it going until Debian transitioned to systemd. Unlike systemd, upstart supported sysvinit scripts, so it made sense to transition when Debian did. Bringing that up is maybe not the best example you could choose to bash them with.

I am not saying anything about decision to _start_ using upstart... All I am saying is that in the past, Ubuntu made the right decision multiple times and switched from Canonical-only software to a more common alternative once that alternative became widely used.

And I think that it's a grand time to slowly wind down snaps and switch to flatpak. Linux ecosystem does not need more fragmentation, and given proprietary nature of snap store, there is approximately 0% chance that anyone except Ubuntu derivatives would adopt it.

Maybe snap was better than Flatpak back in the beginning; I can easily believe that when the snaps were introduced, they were better than flatpaks. I am not going to judge. All I want to see a right decision made going forward.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#293

Post by midoridensha »

echelon wrote: post #190
thomaslord wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox is a particularly interesting case because it has a bunch of issues that only exist when it's installed via snap. I just recently ripped out the default snap version and installed via the official PPA, and Firefox seems to be running much smoother now. For basically any app I use that's installed via snap, I eventually run into a gamebreaking issue and have to remove the snap version and find a normal .deb to…

Snap makes sense, but it'll take time for the dust to settle. Just like Unity / Wayland. Applications like Firefox, IntelliJ, Chromium, etc. shouldn't be tied to system dependencies managed by apt. They should be entirely monolithic and hermetic. Long term this deb vs snap approach will make sense and be good for Desktop Linux.

>Snap makes sense, but it'll take time for the dust to settle. Just like Unity / Wayland.

How much time? We've been waiting for over 10 years for the dust to settle with Wayland.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#294

Post by midoridensha »

hellcow wrote: post #132
binwiederhier wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been on Ubuntu 22.04 for a few weeks now, and every now and then Firefox will create a popup notification that says "Firefox needs to be closed to update (12 days left)". When I close it and re-open, Firefox is still not updated. Even when I go to the Software Center and update all apps, it apparently doesn't update snaps. I'm not entirely sure if Firefox is updateable via the UI. It's truly awful; and that's co…

Yup, you need to shutdown firefox, open a terminal, run ‘sudo snap refresh’, wait for it to complete, then re-open firefox. Agreed that the process sucks :)

>Yup, you need to shutdown firefox, open a terminal, run ‘sudo snap refresh’, wait for it to complete, then re-open firefox.

No, you don't need to do this at all. You need to shut down Firefox, open a terminal, run 'sudo snap remove firefox', then 'sudo apt install firefox', wait for it to complete, then re-open Firefox.

(I might be missing a step here)

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#296

Post by dilawar »

yakubin wrote: post #249
brnt wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've also heard criticism of .deb being much more cumbersome than .rpm. Fedora is not my first choice, Debian is, but they are more new-dev friendly. Maybe Debian needs to port itself to use rpms and Fedora tooling.

Debs are very easy to make and their structure is easy to understand for anyone who's been using Linux for at least a couple months. They're just tarballs with a couple special text files. What's hard is Debian's official tools to make debs, which are geared towards people who want to become maintainers of packages in official Debian repos. If you don't aim to become one, there are third-party tools which make it eas…

> RPM on the other hand is an over-engineered mess: https://xyrillian.de/thoughts/posts/argh-pm.html>. Tangentially, YUM and DNF were the slowest package managers I've ever used. They're a real pain.

I like OpenSuse but man zypper is possibly the slowest package manager ever!! Can't even download in parallel. I think they are now moving to dnf.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#297

Post by pizza »

oxff wrote: post #295

Forced to use Windows because Ubuntu cannot get color profile for monitor right and font rendering is awful compared to Winndows

Would love to get proper hdr support on Ubuntu. Furthermore there doesn't seem to be display-stream compression support, so I can't get 5160x1440 @ 240 Hz :/ - "just" 3840x1080, which to be fair, is still many pixels, but..

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#298

Post by Brian-Puccio »

elgenie wrote: post #244
Jenk wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Polite FYI: When a statement has many examples it is correct to use "e.g.," which is an abbreviation of _exempli gratia_, which in turn is Latin for "for example." For example: There are many emotions a person may feel, e.g., happiness. When a statement has only one logical conclusion it is correct to use "i.e.," which is the abbreviation of _id est_ which in turn is Latin for "that is." For example: It was the same…

My mnemonic is "i.e." = "in essence" and "e.g." = "example given". The real phrases being abbreviated are, of course, the Latin ones.

Mine mnemonic is use e.g. when you could say “for eg-zample” and use i.e. when you could say “that is” — ie to is. Admittedly, the second half isn’t as good as the first. : )

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#299

Post by jlkuester7 »

jherskovic wrote: post #290
shinjitsu wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've loved ubuntu for a while as well, but snaps are making me want something new - any suggestions for a "I'm middle aged with children so I need an it just works distro"?

Pop_OS!, hands down. Ubuntu without the crud, with sensible UI choices. The Mac of Linuxii.

Seconded. I am also a fan of Linux Mint for very similar reasons. Ended up recently switching from Mint to Pop, though because I like modern Gnome more than Cinnamon (sue me).

Mint was pretty much rock solid on my Dell XPS. It just worked. Pop has been a bit more exciting, but still a great distro!

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#300

Post by _carbyau_ »

Jenk wrote: post #194
compsciphd wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to defend snap with the idea that it makes sense for some apps, i.e. "firefox" where updating firefox while its running is bad news. Except, snap can't update applications while they are running! i.e. try to do a snap refresh while firefox is running, nothing to update, because its running, quit it wait for all processes to die and then refresh, and it will update and cause you to wait 30-60s while it does it,…

Polite FYI: When a statement has many examples it is correct to use "e.g.," which is an abbreviation of _exempli gratia_, which in turn is Latin for "for example." For example: There are many emotions a person may feel, e.g., happiness. When a statement has only one logical conclusion it is correct to use "i.e.," which is the abbreviation of _id est_ which in turn is Latin for "that is." For example: It was the same…

This had me conflicted.

It seems a bit trite to pick on a single element of language out of the whole post. But it was delightfully communicated and factually educational.

TIL.

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