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Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

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Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#181

Post by raydiatian »

John23832 wrote: post #179
moralestapia wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Libel starts at "you are" not "I believe". Nah, libel triggers as soon as there's intent. And, surprise, intent can be "presumed". "I believe " qualifies as libel, if untrue and it has a defamatory effect. The defamatory effect implies the intent. Honestly, if no definitive proof comes out of Hans cheating, Carlsen/chess.com are in trouble.

But none of this is provably untrue. In fact, chess.com’s report gives evidence that Hans has cheated more than he has led on. In the report evened admits it. Which is all that is asserted here.

I need help understanding how they “gave evidence”

In any case, I know this won’t be officially resolved in the court of public opinion.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#182

Post by dylan604 »

thatguy0900 wrote: post #150
dylan604 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just another example of when you can't innovate, litigate

How so? If he's cheating, he was never actually caught in person, so probably pretty innovative, and if he's not cheating, then his career is crumbling around him at 19 and he can't possibly innovate around the #1 player and one of the largest chess organizations conspiring against him. (I think he's cheating for the record)

You may think that cheating without getting caught is some sort of innovation, but I think you're really stretching for that one.

Maybe the phrase should be updated to "If you can't innovate, litigate. Or cheat"

If you were moving yourself to a better place or even the "sport" or whatever you're involved is moved forward because of you getting better, that would be innovation. Trying to win but not putting in the effort of actually getting better but finding loopholes just flat out isn't. Don't care how much you admire the cleverness in the cheat

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#183

Post by John23832 »

raydiatian wrote: post #181
John23832 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But none of this is provably untrue. In fact, chess.com’s report gives evidence that Hans has cheated more than he has led on. In the report evened admits it. Which is all that is asserted here.

I need help understanding how they “gave evidence” In any case, I know this won’t be officially resolved in the court of public opinion.

In their report, Chess.com statistically showed why they believed that Hans was cheating on their site. They also shared that he admitted it, and why he said he did it (a higher rating gets more streams). That all they need to show, because that’s all they assert.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#184

Post by [deleted] »

John23832 wrote: post #183
raydiatian wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I need help understanding how they “gave evidence” In any case, I know this won’t be officially resolved in the court of public opinion.

In their report, Chess.com statistically showed why they believed that Hans was cheating on their site. They also shared that he admitted it, and why he said he did it (a higher rating gets more streams). That all they need to show, because that’s all they assert.

[deleted]

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#185

Post by busyant »

gretch wrote: post #12
neaden wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, not a lawyer but reading this the damage and the language (things like calling Magnus "King of Chess") seem pretty extreme.

Not a lawyer but I’ve been in lawsuits on all sides. It’s the general recommended practice. The number can only go down, never up, so you ask for all that you can. It does have -some- sense if you think about it: this is a young kid with a whole career ahead of him. Because of this accusation, his career is pretty much over. Since he could have been one of the best (as demonstrated by beating magnus) he would have ma…

> Because of this accusation, his career is pretty much over.

That was the conventional wisdom 3 weeks ago, when chess.com unleashed their report and things looked pretty bad for Hans.

But he performed respectably at the US championship over the past ~2 weeks (4 wins, 3 losses, 6 draws). He was entertainingly arrogant in interviews (I consider this a plus) and seemed to spontaneously conjure chaos (see the king decapitation near the end of the US championship).

If he continues like this (and if security measures are improved), he will be one of the (let's say) top-25 players and also one of the most entertaining.

I don't think we can pronounce the fate of his career yet. He's also only 19 years old.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#187

Post by NotYourLawyer »

rob74 wrote: post #62
NotYourLawyer wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? If he’s innocent, this seems like a reasonable lawsuit.

Even if he's not innocent, proving that he cheated in a way that will hold up in court might be very difficult...

Plaintiff has the burden of proof.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#188

Post by MarcelOlsz »

anonAndOn wrote: post #138
jjk166 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clench in morse code?

If it can cure depression, I don't see why it can't also improve your chess game.[0] [0] https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/331807.How_to_Good_By...

He writes with such conviction it's difficult to not believe him. Going to give this a go, wish me luck.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#189

Post by [deleted] »

thatguy0900 wrote: post #165
faeriechangling wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah totally these fragile snowflakes crying "boohoo I lost my career that I had been working on for my entire life and people harass me whenever I appear in public and call me a sham :..(" All you need to maintain your mental health is a good bottle of whisky and a stiff upper lip!

Except I hope they lose their career when they admittedly have cheated in money matches?... Like we should just let them continue and cheat because they feel bad about being called out? Hes not even apologetic, he has continued to lie throughout this whole ordeal about the scope of his cheating. We only know the scope because he kept insisting it was only a few incidents until chess.com showed him admitting otherwise…

[deleted]

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#190

Post by MarcelOlsz »

hugocbp wrote: post #101
svrtknst wrote: post #98

Is it normal for these suits to be so... salty? in their formulations. I've never read one before, but a lot of the wordings are pretty hilarious. > Carlsen, having solidifed his position as the "King of Chess", believes that when it comes to chess, he can do whatever he wants and get away with it. > On September 4, 2022, Niemann soundly defeated Carlsen during an in-person game > Notably, this was not the first time…

As an "ex" lawyer, you can see some pretty blunt sentences wrapped within otherwise "polite" and formal language in lawsuits... But this... This actually reads like a thriller. Very interesting (and refreshing) to see this kind of structure in a high-profile lawsuit.

I'll catch the movie in 15 years.
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