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Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

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Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#171

Post by Kranar »

gretch wrote: post #168
Kranar wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When discussing legal matters, please avoid making statements like this: "What I gave is pragmatic advise for a normal person in general situations." Avoid purporting to give people legal advice if you are not a subject matter expert. If you want to discuss your own personal experiences, by all means you're welcome to do so and there's nothing wrong with that. In that case avoid making factual or categorical claims t…

You're basically just stating a set of arbitrary life principles and then saying everyone should live by them. I thought my comment was 1) definitely ethical based on the fact the first sentence stated I'm not a lawyer, then later stating that you should always take the advise of your personal lawyer and 2) added value to ppl who didn't have any legal experience at all on the topic. You think I was using the word "ne…

No post body was provided.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#172

Post by DimitriPetrova »

billforsternz wrote: post #76
2bitencryption wrote: post #44

Can someone explain something - Assume for a moment Hans did not cheat (aside from the times he admitted to cheating). In the scenario where he did not cheat - how amazing is his performance? I.e. beating Magnus, Elo rating, etc. I know chess.com did an analysis, which I've read, but I'm hoping someone more impartial could explain it. In the scenario where he did not cheat, is he really on a Bobby Fischer-like ascend…

He has had an impressive but not unprecedented ramp up, from 2400(ish) to 2700 in around 3 years. There are actually other young stars, in particular a trio of Indian prodigies who've had a similar surge at the same time. I recommend the work of Nate Solon, a chess master and data scientist, easy to find on Twitter, he's published some interesting analysis. It's surprising for Magnus to lose a White game at all, espe…

Carlsen was also immediately worse out of the opening and the game went directly from the opening to an endgame where Carlsen(white pieces) was slightly worse.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#174

Post by vecter »

planetsprite wrote: post #164
vecter wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just not true. Check out the analysis here [0], for example. His rating improvement has been steep but he's also played a very large number of games, so his rating gain per game as opposed to per unit of time is not so crazy. Also, no one seriously expects Hans to be a world championship contender. [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/x9bgtx/how_quickly_d...

Every chess player plays a lot of games, Hans' have just been more public/documented ones. You really don't think that every 2400+ player is treating chess like a full time job, and Hans just simply is just outworking them?

Based on his performance at the US Chess Championship that just concluded, I would say either that, talent, or both.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#175

Post by raydiatian »

As much as I want to support Carlsen/Nakamura camp... Honestly Niemann’s claims of conspiracy seem wild, but not totally outrageous. My opinion of the situation has been largely informed by findings from Chess.com reports, and so if Niemann wants to claim that he’s being conspired against, seems like we should rely on a consensus of impartial chess experts, of which there must be plenty.

Everybody involved should know that the public would be more interested in knowing who is lying in a court of law than blindly taking sides. If Carlsen camp settles out you know he’s got nothing.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#176

Post by troelsSteegin »

smoldesu wrote: post #25
saxonww wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His chess career. He most certainly has a wealth of other opportunities, and I tend to think of these chess grandmaster types as very capable of being very good at a lot of other things.

Man, I really hope nobody treated Brittney Griner like that when she came home... "Hey, I know you're an Olympic athelete who has been unfairly persecuted for overblown doping allegations, but... have you ever considered a career in journalism?"

FYI, she's still in prison: https://people.com/sports/brittney-griner-releases-statement...

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#177

Post by ajhurliman »

dane-pgp wrote: post #135
rossdavidh wrote: post #91

Just a thought experiment: what if it turns out that, for all practical purposes, it is impossible to prevent cheating in chess? I mean the sport of Tour de France cycling disappeared for a decade, replaced by an identical-looking-but-fundamentally-different sport of competing to see who can cheat (dope) the best. It was probably not even possible to get into the TdF during that time period, without doping, there wer…

> Chess will be replaced with an acting and subterfuge competition. Which sort of prompts the question: Why isn't there a "World Chess Cheating Championship"? The competitors would be given the chance to either demonstrate a type of cheating, or demonstrate a counter-measure, and then judges would be able to organise rigorous tests that paired the methods off against each other. One sort of test that would be interes…

There actually is, computer-aided humans can beat computers, in fact.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#178

Post by rufus_foreman »

miamibre wrote: post #145

Please note: I am not a lawyer With that said, pretty much everyone in my family, including my SO, are lawyers and I have been around the block a few times when it comes to discussing slander / libel suits in the US. As an independent 3rd party with no interest in the world of Chess, I don't see how Niemann expects to win any damages in this case. In the US the bar for slander is very high due to the existence of the…

>> I don't see how Niemann expects to win any damages in this case

I don't think that's the only reason you bring a slander lawsuit. I think sometimes people do it expecting they will lose, but knowing the defense will be "we have no evidence the things we said were true, but our false statements are technically legal", and making the defendants go on the record with that defense.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#179

Post by John23832 »

moralestapia wrote: post #167
John23832 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter. Nobody outright said that Hans cheated in the match (except for Hikaru, but that's commentary on youtube. He has the right to say that.) There's no basis to sue Chess.com. Their report is their stance. They sponsor online games and run their own platform, so they can remove Hans if they please. Magnus specifically didn't call Hans a cheater, he just said that he believes that he has cheated more th…

>Libel starts at "you are" not "I believe". Nah, libel triggers as soon as there's intent. And, surprise, intent can be "presumed". "I believe " qualifies as libel, if untrue and it has a defamatory effect. The defamatory effect implies the intent. Honestly, if no definitive proof comes out of Hans cheating, Carlsen/chess.com are in trouble.

But none of this is provably untrue. In fact, chess.com’s report gives evidence that Hans has cheated more than he has led on. In the report evened admits it.

Which is all that is asserted here.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#180

Post by blep_ »

jjk166 wrote: post #137
laweijfmvo wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I‘ve been trying to draw parallels to other sports in this regard. Nobody accused Tiger Woods of cheating (at golf) when he redefined the sport. People DID accuse Lance Armstrong, and they were right (although in that case the whole field was cheating). New England Patriots? Kinda cheated. Michael Phelps has never been accused AFAIK. As a non-chess player, I can’t help but wonder if this is just an entire sport refus…

Golf's a game of precision motor control, while insanely long drives might be evidence of cheating, it's hard to imagine a way to make yourself more accurate besides skill, at least without it being obvious on live television. Biking obviously involves a lot of different things but it's much easier to see how doping is going to help. Football has so many facets that it's kind of surprising there aren't more cheating…

Legitimate curiosity from a non-golf person: how would one cheat at golf?
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