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Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

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Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#51

Post by Vrondi »

smoldesu wrote: post #25
saxonww wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His chess career. He most certainly has a wealth of other opportunities, and I tend to think of these chess grandmaster types as very capable of being very good at a lot of other things.

Man, I really hope nobody treated Brittney Griner like that when she came home... "Hey, I know you're an Olympic athelete who has been unfairly persecuted for overblown doping allegations, but... have you ever considered a career in journalism?"

This would be more like _if_ she had admitted to doping during Junior Worlds, then wondered why nobody had confidence in her performance in the Olympics.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#52

Post by JamesBarney »

inanutshellus wrote: post #17
Overtonwindow wrote: post #6

While I don’t think he will win, I think a stronger response is necessary because none of the allegations have been proven. An elite set has condemned someone. Even under a lower standard of more likely than not, I do not believe that it is more likely than not that Neiman cheated. I’m glad he’s standing up for himself but I’m sad to see a lawsuit.

(Excellent username, btw.) Why wouldn't he win? As you mentioned, nothing has been proven, and yet in the "court of public opinion" he's already guilty and is the butt (in the literal sense) of jokes all due to the insinuations and accusations from Mr. Carlsen, the chess tournament hosts, etc. This guy's reputation is in shambles and yet hasn't been formally charged with anything and there's no hard proof anywhere (A…

In the U.S. you don't have to prove everything you say. It's pretty hard to demonstrate defamation, UK is much looser about what classifies as defamation.

Hans would pretty much have to demonstrate someone else knowingly lied or was extremely negligent with regard to the truth . Which will be very difficult.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#53

Post by Ekaros »

woodruffw wrote: post #45
Ekaros wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

The baseline from Alex Jones' cases is significantly higher: Jones built a multibillion dollar company off of slanderous lies about grieving parents and dead children. I don't think anybody in this context is worth close to that much, has had nearly that much public influence, etc.

Chess.com has yearly revenue of 50 to 100 million. So I think actually the 100 million is quite low looking at that number.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#54

Post by AbrahamParangi »

inanutshellus wrote: post #17
Overtonwindow wrote: post #6

While I don’t think he will win, I think a stronger response is necessary because none of the allegations have been proven. An elite set has condemned someone. Even under a lower standard of more likely than not, I do not believe that it is more likely than not that Neiman cheated. I’m glad he’s standing up for himself but I’m sad to see a lawsuit.

(Excellent username, btw.) Why wouldn't he win? As you mentioned, nothing has been proven, and yet in the "court of public opinion" he's already guilty and is the butt (in the literal sense) of jokes all due to the insinuations and accusations from Mr. Carlsen, the chess tournament hosts, etc. This guy's reputation is in shambles and yet hasn't been formally charged with anything and there's no hard proof anywhere (A…

One is not entitled to a good reputation. Your reputation arises from your actions, and Hans has cheated in the past and apparently has very few allies who would defend him for some reason.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#55

Post by dieselgate »

shakezula wrote: post #26
gretch wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a lawyer but I’ve been in lawsuits on all sides. It’s the general recommended practice. The number can only go down, never up, so you ask for all that you can. It does have -some- sense if you think about it: this is a young kid with a whole career ahead of him. Because of this accusation, his career is pretty much over. Since he could have been one of the best (as demonstrated by beating magnus) he would have ma…

Id feel a lot worse for this kid if he hadn’t admitted to cheating before.

Yeah seriously. AFAIK all Carlsen said was "I believe he cheated more - and more recently - than he admitted"

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#57

Post by tibbar »

2bitencryption wrote: post #44

Can someone explain something - Assume for a moment Hans did not cheat (aside from the times he admitted to cheating). In the scenario where he did not cheat - how amazing is his performance? I.e. beating Magnus, Elo rating, etc. I know chess.com did an analysis, which I've read, but I'm hoping someone more impartial could explain it. In the scenario where he did not cheat, is he really on a Bobby Fischer-like ascend…

It's a very impressive rise, but in part because it started later in life than other young GMs. In absolute terms, he's still on par with about a dozen young 2700s who are about the same age. It's just that he caught up really fast.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#58

Post by MichaelCollins »

2bitencryption wrote: post #44

Can someone explain something - Assume for a moment Hans did not cheat (aside from the times he admitted to cheating). In the scenario where he did not cheat - how amazing is his performance? I.e. beating Magnus, Elo rating, etc. I know chess.com did an analysis, which I've read, but I'm hoping someone more impartial could explain it. In the scenario where he did not cheat, is he really on a Bobby Fischer-like ascend…

> In the scenario where he did not cheat, is he really on a Bobby Fischer-like ascendance?

From what I understand, if he's innocent then he's beyond Bobby Fischer.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#59

Post by sillysaurusx »

planetsprite wrote: post #48
2bitencryption wrote: post #44

Can someone explain something - Assume for a moment Hans did not cheat (aside from the times he admitted to cheating). In the scenario where he did not cheat - how amazing is his performance? I.e. beating Magnus, Elo rating, etc. I know chess.com did an analysis, which I've read, but I'm hoping someone more impartial could explain it. In the scenario where he did not cheat, is he really on a Bobby Fischer-like ascend…

His rate of improvement, assuming no cheating since his ban in 2020, is a faster ascendance than any other player in history, including Bobby Fischer. So yes, assuming he suddenly quit cheating cold turkey, his performance would indicate he is a once in a generation talent and could easily become the best in the world, according to the Chess.com report.

I'm a huge Hans fan. (F him for cheating, but setting that aside.) His play is objectively insane. Either he's somehow been cheating this whole time via shoefish, or he's the real deal.

GothamChess has had excellent coverage of his games.

Like seriously, look at this one: https://youtu.be/ainUWFboMLs?t=1490

Hans threw a masterful knockout punch at the end, one which his opponent completely overlooked, and was solely a single move. There wasn't cheating-like high level strategy involved -- it was a one-move fatality.

Whatever else the kid has done, he is one hell of a chess player. I find it hard not to root for him, even knowing his history.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#60

Post by sterlind »

karpierz wrote: post #28
yladiz wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>THIRD CAUSE OF ACTION (Violation of the Sherman Act, 15 U.S.C. § 1, et seq. – Against All Defendants) What possible violation of the Sherman Act could he be pursuing?

He insinuates that by merging Chess.com and PlayMagnus, Chess is basically all owned by the same entity.

what about lichess though? that's independent and quite popular.
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