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Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#521

Post by rayiner »

panick21_ wrote: post #505
rootusrootus wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree 100%. IMO abandoning the working class is by far the stupidest thing the Democratic Party has done in recent memory. And even now, as it should be becoming crystal clear, they still don't seem to have the ability for introspection. They keep thinking they should be winning handily, and on the merits this is a plausible argument, but they really have a hard time with culture. I find it very frustrating, because…

The problem is, with what platform are you gone capture those working class people. You can't just win on the rural working class. You need to convince deserve urban working and upper class citizens. In the US, if you want to go after the rural working class then you better be talking correct about abortion and guns otherwise you will get nowhere. Its really not easy to do.

You’ve got it backward. You do it by not talking about abortion (and other things that divide your coalition of urban liberals and working class people). “Celebrate your abortion” isn’t helping democrats with my Bangladeshi immigrant family in Queens either.

The people you’ll lose doing that are the Rockefeller republicans—Silicon Valley and Westchester types. And that’s fine.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#522

Post by arethuza »

motogpjimbo wrote: post #424
SilasX wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that really true though? Money is the only factor in admission? No entrance exams? No rejections for “families we don’t want to be associated with”? No special admittances for prestigious families that don’t get charged? If not, maybe that explanation isn’t a very helpful one.

The point is that the school won't reject a child because their parents don't work in a particular industry or belong to a certain religious organisation, as was sometimes the case with "private" schools previously. Both private and public schools pre-date state schools in the UK, hence the confusion over the terminology.

Our son went to a public school and my wife came back from a meeting at the school amused that she had managed to catch sight of the schools evaluation of us as parents - she scored very highly as an advocate (Scottish equivalent of a barrister) and I was scored down for being a humble computing type.

Both of us thought this was hilarious!

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#524

Post by rhodorhoades »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #207

I think it's now down to the public to hold a general strike until a general election is called. Otherwise we're just going to suffer again with the Tories infighting between centrists and far right.

Why does it feel like in western culture it’s becoming more and more treasonous/ taboo to suggest things of this nature?

If you suggested that every take their money out of banks as a mass movement l, would that be treason?

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#525

Post by vmilner »

squidbeak wrote: post #421
chrisseaton wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A cursory glance at the various Wikipedia lists of politicians assassinated in either country rebuts your last point. Huh? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Congress... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_MPs_killed_in_... UK 3 in last 30 years, US 2. For a US population of 40x larger, and easier access to guns.

In your reckoning, you ignore the difference in access to politicians. UK MPs have weekly 'surgeries' where any constituent discuss issues one on one. It's somewhat harder to meet a representative one on one in the States.

Quite. Jo Cox, David Amess and Andrew Pennington (a local councillor defending MP Nigel Jones) were all murdered at surgeries. Stephen Timms also survived an attempted murder by stabbing.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#526

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

HelloNurse wrote: post #102
hairofadog wrote: post #90

I know this topic is important in substance and the thing I'm about to say is an aesthetic issue, but as an American watching this unfold I have admired the Brits for the sense of heart that still seems to be present in their politics. I'm referring to the parliamentary sessions in which, even though they're savagely roasting each other, they're doing in a way that feels somehow good-hearted and doesn't lay bare the…

> a way that feels somehow good-hearted and doesn't lay bare the naked resentment and hatred that seems to be all we have left in the USA. Do you think it is real hatred or kayfabe?

> Do you think it is real hatred or kayfabe?

I think when one side believes (with good justification) that the other side tried to get them killed in the workplace, it's not kayfabe any more.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic...

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#527

Post by rhodorhoades »

csours wrote: post #302
Symmetry wrote: post #238

1) I really like that in the UK system if the leader is crazy the party can just kick them to the curb rather than basically having to support them even when they do terrible things. 2) The US system of open primaries where anybody can vote that we adopted in the 70s seems like a mistake in retrospect and there's a good reason no other country does things this way. The UK Conservative party's system, adopted in the 2…

If I wasn't living in this timeline, the current Republican politics would be HILARIOUS. In short [0], the idea of republicanism is that the people cannot be trusted to make political decisions; you need elder statesmen to do that. In other words, you need grown-ups. To this end, we have the electoral college, which is supposed to block any egregiously populist president. Well that is not how it worked out. 0. So sho…

If you don’t have any intentions of defending your beliefs, why do you put them out there?

It’s like throwing a punch with no intention of getting in a fight. You’re just bound to get your ass kicked.

Not only is the UK not a republic but Republicanism isn’t about needing a grown up, it’s about time. Understanding the implications and reading through a 150 page proposal on the bill is not possible for the majority of the population.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#528

Post by PaulHoule »

panick21_ wrote: post #505
rootusrootus wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree 100%. IMO abandoning the working class is by far the stupidest thing the Democratic Party has done in recent memory. And even now, as it should be becoming crystal clear, they still don't seem to have the ability for introspection. They keep thinking they should be winning handily, and on the merits this is a plausible argument, but they really have a hard time with culture. I find it very frustrating, because…

The problem is, with what platform are you gone capture those working class people. You can't just win on the rural working class. You need to convince deserve urban working and upper class citizens. In the US, if you want to go after the rural working class then you better be talking correct about abortion and guns otherwise you will get nowhere. Its really not easy to do.

Abortion and guns are different. Many rural voters own guns and personally feel a loss from gun control. The average rural voter has a basically libertarian bent and would probably be pretty happy with a truce that they are left alone about guns and women are left alone about abortion.

Like it or not the electoral map favors rural voters, Democrats can recruit more urban voters and it will make no difference for winning seats. If Democrats gave up 5% of their urban votes in exchange for 3% of the rural votes the Republicans would find themselves in the wilderness.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#529

Post by Gordonjcp »

factcheckdec wrote: post #445
Gordonjcp wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I should be tolerant of the people that have killed a couple of million people and destroyed the country? At what point is it okay to no longer be tolerant of them?

How many people did the government led by Tony Blair kill, by the way? Or do we only care about British lives?

Tony Blair needs a brief visit to The Hague followed by an even shorter visit to a firing squad.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#530

Post by rayiner »

rootusrootus wrote: post #517
panick21_ wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, with what platform are you gone capture those working class people. You can't just win on the rural working class. You need to convince deserve urban working and upper class citizens. In the US, if you want to go after the rural working class then you better be talking correct about abortion and guns otherwise you will get nowhere. Its really not easy to do.

Making abortion an effective wedge issue was an excellent strategy by the GOP, no doubt. And continuing to pursue gun control is an unforced error on the part of the Democrats (though they eased off quite a bit on that starting with Obama, to be fair). IMO the Democrats would have been better off focusing most of their effort on something like single payer health care, along with minimum wage and housing affordabilit…

> Making abortion an effective wedge issue was an excellent strategy by the GOP, no doubt.

Calling abortion a “wedge issue” leads you to thinking about it the wrong way. Sure, democrats say abortion is an unimportant distraction the GOP likes to trot out—but only insofar as everyone unilaterally accepts their position on it. They certainly didn’t treat it that way when Roe was repealed.

There’s no “wedge issues.” The electorate cares about what it cares about. Parties need to triangulation on positions that keep their coalition together, and avoid positions that allow the other party to divide their coalition. It’s just math.

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