Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister • Hacker News Board

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#201

Post by sofixa » Thu, Oct 20, 2022, 1:36 PM UTC

bb123 wrote: post #186

vbezhenar wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it only me who thinks it's crazy that in modern world some guy with birth right have the authority over entire western country? So much for democracy.

He doesn't have any authority, in practice. It has been that way since 1414. The second the monarchy tried to exert control over politics would be the second it was abolished.

Charles exerted lots of control behind the scenes while he was Prince of Wales, lobbying, receiving lobbyists, getting inside information, accepting huge donations, etc.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#202

Post by martopix » Thu, Oct 20, 2022, 1:36 PM UTC

evgen wrote: post #114

ranko wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling an election is now back in the hands of the government (not parliament) since the repeal of the Fixed Term Parliaments Act; a PM can ask the monarch to call an election without having to get the agreement of parliament. Neither the current nor next PM (whoever they end up being) is likely to do this if the polling numbers are anything to go by, of course. I think the only other way an election can be called i…

Technically speaking, King Charles III does not actually need to PM to ask in order to dismiss parliament and force a new election. Given that Charles I and Charles II both dismissed parliament maybe Charles III will grow a pair and do the same. It is somewhat ironic that while dismissing parliament caused the downfall of the monarchy for Charles I is it likely to buy a significant amount of time for the monarchy if…

This is a typical misunderstanding of British politics. In theory the King is supposed to have power on a range of things, but there are very clearly set constitutional conventions that mean he does not. These are now so powerful that not even the "theory" is able to supersede them. This was found out the hard way by Boris Johnson when he tried to prorogue (suspend) Parliament using the Royal Prerogative. The supreme court cancelled his 'advice to the Queen' very quickly and restored Parliament.

Yes it's confusing and it would be better to write down a constitution reflecting how things actually are, but that's how it is.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#203

Post by matthewmacleod » Thu, Oct 20, 2022, 1:36 PM UTC

pclmulqdq wrote: post #168

cjrp wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trouble is he doesn’t have the support of much of the party, and that inherently leads to instability.

He, and many others, actually does seem to have the support of a lot of the party. Liz Truss didn't - she just had the support of the current party leadership. They made the mistake of putting up two incredibly unpopular candidates for PM to the party members in the most recent PM selection process. I'm not sure they will make the same mistake again. At the same time, they did just have an election, so it's not like…

He, and many others, actually does seem to have the support of a lot of the party. Liz Truss didn't - she just had the support of the current party leadership.

This is pretty much the exact opposite of true – Truss had the support of the membership, and did not have the support of the "leadership" or the parliamentary party. Sunak was the other way round.

At the same time, they did just have an election, so it's not like they are going to be interested in having another one

There's not really another choice, though it's possible that only one candidate will stand, in which case an election is avoided.

Labour-aligned folks are calling for one for obvious reasons.

They're calling for a general election, not a Conservative leadership election.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#204

Post by pc86 » Thu, Oct 20, 2022, 1:36 PM UTC

gonzo41 wrote: post #128

mcv wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both countries suffer from winner-takes-all district systems, and would probably be much improved by a system of proportional representation.

Rank choice and optional preferential voting have their own special tyranny. I just voted for a council election where I had to order at least 5 alderman out of 55 listed candidates. No parties, no voting guides. It was a lot of reading for me.

Reading? In this economy? The gall!

No offense but if the idea of finding 5 candidates you can feel comfortable voting for is too much work, you shouldn't be voting.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#205

Post by petesergeant » Thu, Oct 20, 2022, 1:37 PM UTC

raesene9 wrote: post #19

What happens next will be interesting . At this point, a general election would be the obviously correct solution. It's clear that the conservative party don't have a platform and can't agree major policy points amongst themselves. However that would require conservative MPs to vote for it, which is the turkeys voting for Christmas so unlikely to happen, so I'd expect we'll have to wait till 2024 for that election. T…

> a general election would be the obviously correct solution

As much as I'd love a GE and to see Tory MPs swept from power en-masse, that's just not how a Parliamentary system works. Everyone in the UK voted for (whether they think it or not) an MP to elect them for five years. Those MPs get to choose who leads them.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#206

Post by markvdb » Thu, Oct 20, 2022, 1:37 PM UTC

kamaal wrote: post #93

samwillis wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

George Canning died in office, he wasn’t pushed out for being a miserable failure who crashed the economy.

>>a miserable failure who crashed the economy. Can somebody from the UK tell us what did she do that the economy crashed, in just under two months?

Her government proposed an unfunded budget that caused a gilt market panic. Part of the mortgage market dried up. Variable mortgage rates exploded. Pension funds had to resort to emergency measures. The Bank of England had to intervene.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#207

Post by ndsipa_pomu » Thu, Oct 20, 2022, 1:37 PM UTC

I think it's now down to the public to hold a general strike until a general election is called. Otherwise we're just going to suffer again with the Tories infighting between centrists and far right.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#208

Post by yakireev » Thu, Oct 20, 2022, 1:37 PM UTC

durnygbur wrote: post #52

As a smug continental European the next thing I predict regarding UK is that they exit NATO and form a government in exile in Spain.

> and form a government in exile in Spain

Just curious: is this a reference to something?

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#209

Post by Aromasin » Thu, Oct 20, 2022, 1:38 PM UTC

Gordonjcp wrote: post #101

raesene9 wrote: post #19

What happens next will be interesting . At this point, a general election would be the obviously correct solution. It's clear that the conservative party don't have a platform and can't agree major policy points amongst themselves. However that would require conservative MPs to vote for it, which is the turkeys voting for Christmas so unlikely to happen, so I'd expect we'll have to wait till 2024 for that election. T…

This will be the fourth unelected PM in six years (okay, Boris Johnson did actually win a GE after being foisted upon us, if you think that counts). It's time for an early General Election. This lot need to go. Every trace of the Tories must be obliterated. The hilarious part is, the way that polling stands right now, a General Election would result in a strong Labour majority with the Scottish National Party in oppo…

To say they have not been elected is a complete falsification of our parliamentary system. The UK general populace has never voted for a PM. Party members do, and every single prime minister (bar some few exceptions) have been elected by their Party in some way, shape, or form. The four PMs you mention were voted into power by Conservative voters. Conservative members decide who to lead their party, not the anyone else. This is why you don't get situations like you do in the US, where the President can be of a different party to most of those in government (and little ever gets done because legislation gets caught in either house or senate as a result).

We vote for MPs, not Parties. The PM could lose their seat if their local constituency votes them out, even if every other person in the country voted for them. An example of that is the 1906 election [1], where Balfour lost his local vote and the Conservatives had to scramble to come up with a new leader. This is why top MPs are given safe seats by their respective parties. Of course, in practice, the vast majority of people vote for their Party not their local MP when they go to the polls during a general election. That isn't how the system is designed to function though. Most people couldn't even name their local MP - the one who is actually meant to represent their personal interests - which is an utter travesty and the source of most of this countries political woes.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1906_United_Kingdom_general_el...

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#210

Post by petesergeant » Thu, Oct 20, 2022, 1:38 PM UTC

vbezhenar wrote: post #164

evgen wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically speaking, King Charles III does not actually need to PM to ask in order to dismiss parliament and force a new election. Given that Charles I and Charles II both dismissed parliament maybe Charles III will grow a pair and do the same. It is somewhat ironic that while dismissing parliament caused the downfall of the monarchy for Charles I is it likely to buy a significant amount of time for the monarchy if…

Is it only me who thinks it's crazy that in modern world some guy with birth right have the authority over entire western country? So much for democracy.

That would be crazy, but it isn't true