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San Francisco is spending $1.7M on one public toilet

sfchronicle.com

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Re: San Francisco is spending $1.7M on one public toilet

#231

Post by vlovich123 »

asow92 wrote: post #160

Why is it that the deepest blue areas of the country have some of the most abject inequity and poverty? It seems that there's a fine line between compassion and enablement when it comes to the deep blue municipalities of New York, Chicago, San Francisco, Portland, Seattle, etc. Sure the rustbelt, deep south, and Appalachia are areas with similar problems and mixed politics, but they also somehow feel different.

City vs rural have different challenges for one. Cities as a whole seem to lean left but it’s unclear if the policies are to blame or if it’s just a problem of unrelated political factors (eg bussing homeless into cities from red areas to “clean up your streets”)

Re: San Francisco is spending $1.7M on one public toilet

#232

Post by caned »

Ninjak8051 wrote: post #75

$1.7M is approximately the construction cost for a ~2000 sq ft rebuild in the suburbs. So that does seem a bit high to construct a single 150 sq ft bathroom. Probably the mistake is undertaking such a small project to begin with. It sounds like there are many fixed overhead costs (such as environmental review) that must be paid regardless of project size. Maybe you could have a 1,000 sq. ft. bathroom for $2 million,…

Sounds pretty reasonable...amortize the fixed costs over larger facilities and greater utility.

Why was this downvoted?

Re: San Francisco is spending $1.7M on one public toilet

#233

Post by m0llusk »

hot_gril wrote: post #169

Reminds me of their $2.4B bus terminal, which opened in 2018, closed a month later when they noticed structural cracks, reopened in 2019, then closed in 2020 for covid19. Had to walk under its unfinished skeleton every day going to work.

You are making light of things for your own delight and political leanings which is exactly the kind of thing that leads to all this nastiness. The station you are talking about is multimodal and is going to get Caltrain even though it takes a long time. It has a unique structure that makes it essentially a big floating barge and the problems that came with that have since been fixed. Lots of stuff got closed for COVID that could probably have been kept open with precautions. Your pointed criticism needs to be balanced against alternatives and you provide none.

Re: San Francisco is spending $1.7M on one public toilet

#234

Post by jgerrish »

insanitybit wrote: post #136
illuminerdy wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't make any sense. Public toilets are for the public. Anyone who finds themselves in a situation where they need a toilet. A tourist, for example. Or maybe just someone who finds nature calling at an inopportune time. I'm sure we've all been there. Also, even if it WAS for people who have nowhere else, that doesn't mean that it should be covered with shit.

No one is saying it should be covered in shit. I'm just explaining that projects like this in SF are targeting a very specific issue - a large homeless population.

Yes, but San Francisco also has a large tourist population.

Speaking of targeted, this public project almost feels like it was designed to piss off conservatives. Which is a shame, because older tourists are a big segment of the market there. And foreign toursts. And just like climate change and summer homes on the coast, I hate that there will be ironic endings to this for conservatives.

Obviously, the homeless population and climate challenged have it worse. But we didn't need to make others suffer.

Such a shitty situation. Pin sanitation worker pay to software engineering rates or higher and build some fucking toilets.

Re: San Francisco is spending $1.7M on one public toilet

#235

Post by theGnuMe »

aliqot wrote: post #202
cjtrowbridge wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

In what ways is SFO right wing? I don't see much representation of that type as far as elected officials. Is this a term used in spirit or something I'm overlooking?

SFO is an airport, so two wings generally..

Re: San Francisco is spending $1.7M on one public toilet

#236

Post by d23 »

asow92 wrote: post #160

Why is it that the deepest blue areas of the country have some of the most abject inequity and poverty? It seems that there's a fine line between compassion and enablement when it comes to the deep blue municipalities of New York, Chicago, San Francisco, Portland, Seattle, etc. Sure the rustbelt, deep south, and Appalachia are areas with similar problems and mixed politics, but they also somehow feel different.

Inequality is pointless to talk about in a vacuum. Blue states tend to have higher wealth overall, so it's unsurprising there's a bigger measure of "inequality." On basically every economic point, blue states are better: https://appliedsentience.com/2020/07/30/economics-are-red-or... For this reason, blue states also end up essentially subsidizing the red ones: https://www.tampabay.com/opinion/2022/01/22/blue-states-pay-...

Re: San Francisco is spending $1.7M on one public toilet

#237

Post by hotpotamus »

melony wrote: post #225
hotpotamus wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> The public toilet will be built by union workers who will “earn a living wage and benefits,” San Francisco doesn't owe anything to the tradespeople. When you share a border with Mexico, there is absolutely no reason not to outsource. Almost every city that can rapidly scale up infrastructure have access to some type of cheap labour. The rapid construction in the middle east and asia didn't happen by using union lab…

Does San Fransisco owe anything to anyone?

Re: San Francisco is spending $1.7M on one public toilet

#238

Post by kfarr »

throwawaytoilet wrote: post #172
throwawaytoilet wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For years I felt this way. But with a 3 year old child you go into lots of public toilets all over the city. Nearly all toilets near playgrounds for children have been fine. Basic but fine.

Thinking through this more. SF Parks and Recs managed toilets have all been fine from a sample size of about 20 uniques and maybe 80 visits. About 75% of those visits are weekend days in the mornings.

Yes Rec and Parks bathrooms are plenty good for the job, even with kids. Maybe they should take over the other ones!

Re: San Francisco is spending $1.7M on one public toilet

#239

Post by gtirloni »

rumpelstinkin wrote: post #157
knaekhoved wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Public toilets aren't really for you, they're for the people who have nowhere else. This is an incredibly stockholm-syndrome take. If you live in a place that isn't a total failed state, normal people actually can use the public toilets!

honestly though, public toilets are usually so dirty in my area (unless there are entry fees) that I rather use a shop's toilet instead. This is not about failed states, but a large portion of the populace not giving a shit about others... or giving too much shit perhaps =)

Japan has excellent toilets. They have that by doubling down on cleaning, not on expecting their people to care more (they don't).

Re: San Francisco is spending $1.7M on one public toilet

#240

Post by newswasboring »

ceejayoz wrote: post #66
jdross wrote: post #44

I do not believe this type of public theft is due to incompetence, I believe it is corruption and grift

It's straight out of the OSS (pre-CIA)'s "Simple Sabotage Field Manual". https://gist.github.com/kennwhite/467529962c184258d08f16daec... > General Interference with Organizations and Production > Insist on doing everything through "channels." Never permit short-cuts to be taken in order to expedite decisions. Make "speeches." Talk as frequently as possible and at great length. Illustrate your "points" by long anecdot…

What's funny is if you remove all the scare quotes this can be added to any organization guide for many big corporations. The crux of the thing is "follow the process, keep following the process".
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