Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister • Hacker News Board

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#301

Post by cameronh90 » Thu, Oct 20, 2022, 2:06 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #119

hairofadog wrote: post #90

I know this topic is important in substance and the thing I'm about to say is an aesthetic issue, but as an American watching this unfold I have admired the Brits for the sense of heart that still seems to be present in their politics. I'm referring to the parliamentary sessions in which, even though they're savagely roasting each other, they're doing in a way that feels somehow good-hearted and doesn't lay bare the…

> they're doing in a way that feels somehow good-hearted and doesn't lay bare the naked resentment and hatred that seems to be all we have left in the USA It's nice that it looks this way, but the different parties and their supporters in the UK absolutely hate each other. Front-bench party members now routinely and openly using words like 'scum' and 'detest' to talk about their colleagues on the other side. I don't…

Many of the politicians insulting each other in the chamber are on quite good terms outside of it. There are exceptions, of course, and the conduct of certain MPs can be troublesome - but it is broadly good natured. If you watch closely during PMQs, you can even see the adversarial act breaking from time to time when one of them gets in a good joke about the other.

Politicians being killed is clearly unacceptable and I'm pretty sure the vast majority of even very politically partisan people in this country would strongly condemn any kind of violence. However, we don't routinely have much security for MPs when they are at their constituency office, so it only takes one nutter to do something. If anything, it's sadly surprising that it doesn't happen more often.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#302

Post by csours » Thu, Oct 20, 2022, 2:06 PM UTC

Symmetry wrote: post #238

1) I really like that in the UK system if the leader is crazy the party can just kick them to the curb rather than basically having to support them even when they do terrible things. 2) The US system of open primaries where anybody can vote that we adopted in the 70s seems like a mistake in retrospect and there's a good reason no other country does things this way. The UK Conservative party's system, adopted in the 2…

If I wasn't living in this timeline, the current Republican politics would be HILARIOUS.

In short [0], the idea of republicanism is that the people cannot be trusted to make political decisions; you need elder statesmen to do that. In other words, you need grown-ups. To this end, we have the electoral college, which is supposed to block any egregiously populist president. Well that is not how it worked out.

0. So short that it is misleading. I won't defend anything I say here, even though I believe it in principle.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#303

Post by rsynnott » Thu, Oct 20, 2022, 2:07 PM UTC

usefulcat wrote: post #233

klelatti wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lost the confidence of the market for UK government debt pushing up borrowing costs for government and for others (as well as causing problems for pension funds who own that debt). She did this by launching a series of unfunded tax cuts and doing so without an assessment of the impact on the UK's finances.

> She did this by launching a series of unfunded tax cuts Another interesting difference between the US and UK. Republicans do this routinely in the US, and have done for many decades now. The last Republican president who didn't do this was George Bush (the first one). After promising "no new taxes" during his campaign, he later agreed to do the fiscally responsible thing and raise taxes in order to offset spending…

While they do, I'm not sure they ever have in quite _these_ circumstances. The UK is (a) seeing some of the highest rates of inflation in the developed world and (b) needs to massively subsidise energy costs due to the energy crisis caused by the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Now, I'd argue that borrowing enormous amounts of money to give a tax break to the upper-middle-class is almost _never_ a good idea, but it's particularly not a good idea in the current climate.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#304

Post by rsynnott » Thu, Oct 20, 2022, 2:09 PM UTC

Symmetry wrote: post #238

1) I really like that in the UK system if the leader is crazy the party can just kick them to the curb rather than basically having to support them even when they do terrible things. 2) The US system of open primaries where anybody can vote that we adopted in the 70s seems like a mistake in retrospect and there's a good reason no other country does things this way. The UK Conservative party's system, adopted in the 2…

US parties _can_ do that, too (and notably did with Nixon). The refusal to do it with Trump was a moral failing of the Republican leadership, not an inherent systemic limitation.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#305

Post by thebooktocome » Thu, Oct 20, 2022, 2:10 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #119

hairofadog wrote: post #90

I know this topic is important in substance and the thing I'm about to say is an aesthetic issue, but as an American watching this unfold I have admired the Brits for the sense of heart that still seems to be present in their politics. I'm referring to the parliamentary sessions in which, even though they're savagely roasting each other, they're doing in a way that feels somehow good-hearted and doesn't lay bare the…

> they're doing in a way that feels somehow good-hearted and doesn't lay bare the naked resentment and hatred that seems to be all we have left in the USA It's nice that it looks this way, but the different parties and their supporters in the UK absolutely hate each other. Front-bench party members now routinely and openly using words like 'scum' and 'detest' to talk about their colleagues on the other side. I don't…

A cursory glance at the various Wikipedia lists of politicians assassinated in either country rebuts your last point.

US political discourse is vastly more hostile than you give it credit for, as well. Veiled death threats (shooting pictures of opponents, burning in effigy, etc.) are increasingly common, particularly on the conservative side.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#306

Post by zimpenfish » Thu, Oct 20, 2022, 2:10 PM UTC

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #291

T-zex wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you mean private schools? Public school education in the UK is quite problematic.

> Did you mean private schools? Public school education in the UK is quite problematic. Ita confusing. In the uk, private schools are referred to as "public schools". The last person to know the reason for this died in 1764. Probably. Schools that the actual public go to are called "state schools" because they're funded by the state (and not by daddy's estate).

Back when I was a youngster, I was at a private school (council was paying for me) which was making a big deal about getting admitted to the Headmasters' Conference because that meant they could now refer to themselves as a public school.

(Although that school isn't currently in the HC, presumably because it was run by Christian Brothers and one of the teachers has since been imprisoned for inappropriate behaviour with children.)

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#307

Post by gsatic » Thu, Oct 20, 2022, 2:10 PM UTC

hairofadog wrote: post #90

I know this topic is important in substance and the thing I'm about to say is an aesthetic issue, but as an American watching this unfold I have admired the Brits for the sense of heart that still seems to be present in their politics. I'm referring to the parliamentary sessions in which, even though they're savagely roasting each other, they're doing in a way that feels somehow good-hearted and doesn't lay bare the…

Ya right. This is called hysterical realism.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#308

Post by smcl » Thu, Oct 20, 2022, 2:10 PM UTC

scott_w wrote: post #281

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>even though they're savagely roasting each other, they're doing in a way that feels somehow good-hearted and doesn't lay bare the naked resentment and hatred that seems to be all we have left in the USA. The difference is they all went to the same schools together. Makes close to zero difference who runs the country, because once you’ve lived under both sides it’s the same thing.

That's not even remotely true. The Leader of the Opposition (Keir Starmer) went to Reigate, then to Leeds University. Gordon Brown went to Edinburgh University, Jeremy Corbyn went to North London Poly. Only Ed Milliband and Tony Blair went to Oxford, which is where (of the Conservative Party): David Cameron, Boris Johnson, Theresa May and Liz Truss went. Saying "living under both sides is the same thing" is also obse…

So all the names of PMs you mentioned bar one went to Oxford...

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#309

Post by netrus » Thu, Oct 20, 2022, 2:10 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #204

gonzo41 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rank choice and optional preferential voting have their own special tyranny. I just voted for a council election where I had to order at least 5 alderman out of 55 listed candidates. No parties, no voting guides. It was a lot of reading for me.

Reading? In this economy? The gall! No offense but if the idea of finding 5 candidates you can feel comfortable voting for is too much work, you shouldn't be voting.

Right or wrong, it is fair to assume many will cast their vote without doing the reading in such a system. Speaking from a German perspective, I sometimes think how inefficient it is to count 60M votes - just counting 1M votes will give you the exact same result, iff you get the sampling right. What if we could choose a subset of 1% of citizens at random for every election (still far too many to directly bribe), giving them some pride in their responsibility, make sure they have some/better access to the candidates etc.. Again, if the sampling is sound, this won't change the outcome (other than the average voter being more motivated/informed). Of course, I see the problem that people will not feel represented if they, by chance, never get to vote in their whole life ...

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#310

Post by karmajunkie » Thu, Oct 20, 2022, 2:10 PM UTC

bb123 wrote: post #186

vbezhenar wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it only me who thinks it's crazy that in modern world some guy with birth right have the authority over entire western country? So much for democracy.

He doesn't have any authority, in practice. It has been that way since 1414. The second the monarchy tried to exert control over politics would be the second it was abolished.

did you perhaps mean 1914? i’m not a historian but i DID watch Hamilton a few times and it really seemed like King George had quite a lot of power and authority…