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75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

1000hoursoutside.com

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Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#461

Post by nyokodo »

kotlin2 wrote: post #435
irrational wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what they mean is, every person is different and it is impossible to say how any individual would be if they had been raised in a large family instead of a small one, or vice versa.

I don't think so. "an end" means a goal. "People are an end", to me, means that the creation of people is the goal. This is a common belief in religions like Catholicism that are against contraception.

> "People are an end", to me, means that the creation of people is the goal. This is a common belief in religions like Catholicism that are against contraception.

Catholics believe that the primary end of sex and marriage is procreation, albeit not ruling out secondary ends. That’s beside the point. People being an end in themselves means that before considering any outcomes of their lives their existence is good. E.g. if I have a kid who has Downs Syndrome their life is a fundamental good even though their outcome will probably be considerably worse than a healthy child. Many non-Catholics share this view. That does have implications for family size as it moves one’s attitude towards responsible generosity to having children rather than primarily considering the child a threat to or means to some other end.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#462

Post by novok »

BeFlatXIII wrote: post #394
novok wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO that adult isolation is a bit of a choice. What I've seen happen is other parents socialize with other parents with kids of a similar age. Two moms who both have babies visit each other and hang out, etc.

My parents tried that and were fairly lonely during the early childhood years. They hated trading inane poop stories with other parents and longed to return to real adult conversations. If they wanted to discuss the specifics of child-rearing, they’d talk to each other or ask their own parents for advice.

You don't just have to talk about the kids, you can talk about other things? One thing I've noticed from the other side is my friends that got kids, it's hard to just visit, hang out and have some lunch even, even if we get it delivered.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#464

Post by juniperplant »

amag wrote: post #455
Defitio wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but is it fair to the new human? Oversimplified: would you be okay to create a new human if you know they have only 100 days to life? 5 years? 20? Suffering in school, sleep problems etc etc? Just because it's evolutionary pre programmed?

Not everyone who struggles in life would rather not live. I think it's quite arrogant to contemplate whether living is worth it for another human being.

I find it arrogant to force a human being to life, especially at this time. I question everyday the fact that somebody else decided for me that life is somewhat worth living.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#465

Post by logical_ferry »

amag wrote: post #459
Defitio wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I'm the maker of another human it's definitely worth considering before if it will be worth to do so

Even so, that person will not be you. Even if they will go through exactly the same things you've been through they may not have the same experience. You cannot know if it was worth it for them. I think it's fine if people don't have kids, I just find the reasoning "what if they suffer, etc" a cop-out. You cannot know that beforehand and even if they suffer, they may still find meaning in life.

Last several replies you gave are such high quality. I hate it when people overintellectualize such obvious things like having a kid. I would have flipped out at the other poster, but you stuck in there and gave some really good points. Awesome.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#466

Post by Defitio »

amag wrote: post #459
Defitio wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I'm the maker of another human it's definitely worth considering before if it will be worth to do so

Even so, that person will not be you. Even if they will go through exactly the same things you've been through they may not have the same experience. You cannot know if it was worth it for them. I think it's fine if people don't have kids, I just find the reasoning "what if they suffer, etc" a cop-out. You cannot know that beforehand and even if they suffer, they may still find meaning in life.

Regret emotions etc. are only possible when you are alive.

Missery etc also can only be felt when you are alive.

You clearly don't take any responsibility at all otherwise I'm lost on how easy you just dismiss concerns.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#467

Post by jcul »

Aeolun wrote: post #123
WheatMillington wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I'm necessarily having the same experience as you.... my advice to people who aren't sure if they want kids, is DON'T. It's bloody hard, you sacrifice A LOT. Don't have kids unless you're very sure it's what you want. I have 2 kids under 6 and I feel like I just don't have any time for any of my hobbies any more. I leave for work first thing, come home in the afternoon, and haven't had any time for myse…

> until the kids are down at 7.30 Yours sleep at 7:30?! How do you not consider that to be literally oceans of free time? That said, yeah, you give up the whole evenings spent trying to solve some problem, but honestly, I don’t think that, on my deathbed, I’ll ever regret that I didn’t get to solve problem x 30 years ago. What I’m almost positive I’ll look back on very fondly though is every evening spent going in th…

I feel like it's a trade-off between having a little extra time in the evening or a little more sleep in the morning.

Mine go to sleep about 7:30pm, but are generally awake at 5:30 to 6:00am, so you yourself need to go to sleep not long after, or you will have a sleep deficit.

So, it's not a huge amount of time, especially once you do all the jobs than need to be done once they are asleep.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#468

Post by Defitio »

logical_ferry wrote: post #465
amag wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even so, that person will not be you. Even if they will go through exactly the same things you've been through they may not have the same experience. You cannot know if it was worth it for them. I think it's fine if people don't have kids, I just find the reasoning "what if they suffer, etc" a cop-out. You cannot know that beforehand and even if they suffer, they may still find meaning in life.

Last several replies you gave are such high quality. I hate it when people overintellectualize such obvious things like having a kid. I would have flipped out at the other poster, but you stuck in there and gave some really good points. Awesome.

Having kids is everything but obvious.

Don't dismiss critical thinking with an attack on you just because it feels obvious to you.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#469

Post by dmbche »

Defitio wrote: post #452
lee wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or because you are just better in being a parent and biological getting satisfaction out of it? It is totally this. We are biological creatures and we cannot escape that. Love, sex, friendships, relationships, parenting, happiness, and so forth are all aspects of our biology. We are not automatons living a purely rational life. Satisfaction in life depends on those biological mechanisms and shouldn't be seen throug…

Yes but is it fair to the new human? Oversimplified: would you be okay to create a new human if you know they have only 100 days to life? 5 years? 20? Suffering in school, sleep problems etc etc? Just because it's evolutionary pre programmed?

Well, if you believe that life is worth being experienced as it's pretty unique as far as experiences goes, it's normal to expect to be okay with giving that to your child isn't it? I think most people think of life as a net positive.

There's a song where I'm from with a funny line about that - Life is short, but it's long in small stretches.

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