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Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?

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Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?

#331

Post by muzani »

apohn wrote: post #237
muzani wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to flow both ways. Management gets burned out dealing with people who just don't care, and they end up not caring about the people they manage. 6 years ago, a COO once told me, "Employees are donkeys. You use a carrot and stick. If they weren't donkeys they'd be running their own business." It seemed like such stuck up, pretentious 'advice' at the time that I ran far away from that social group. But parent c…

>6 years ago, a COO once told me, "Employees are donkeys. You use a carrot and stick. If they weren't donkeys they'd be running their own business." A COO is an Employee too. Therefore he is a Donkey as well :)

For context, it was a talk on HR policies. He retired at 40 after investing in real estate, then went back to work running companies, but was no longer solely motivated by compensation or the threat of being fired.

He did call managers "donkeys with sticks", though. Just because they manage, as long as their motivation is solely tied to compensation, they're still no better.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?

#332

Post by fendy3002 »

stingraycharles wrote: post #155
fendy3002 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, it's Management's objective to keep productivity high and prevent burnout in the first place. They've failed to do so, now that you're taking care of yourself, consider that you're doing their job.

I don’t think it’s that black-and-white. Sometimes mistakes just happen anywhere, be it with management of developers or whatever. It’s also highly personal the types and amount of stress each individual can cope with. Burnout also happens across many professions, including the managers themselves. How the manager responds to you having a burnout, however, is what’s important. A good manager will manage to accelerate…

Well sorry it feels like that my message is blaming management for that. It kinda does (that it's one of their objective and failed to do so). But it's more to show that you're not care less about the work by taking care of yourself, because it's also in the interest of higher ups that you keep up being productive.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?

#333

Post by micromacrofoot »

ProZsolt wrote: post #323
micromacrofoot wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Understood, but to an extent retirement isn't a choice. At a certain age I will find it harder to get a job and harder to do most things. You also have the concept of compounding interest. A year of savings at age 30 is much more valuable than a year of savings when I'm 60.

You can say the same thing about health. A year of less stress at age 30 is more valuable than when you are 60.

Is it? I'm more capable of physically managing stress at 30. At 60 it could kill me.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?

#334

Post by juve1996 »

celestialcheese wrote: post #302
Waterluvian wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of this. I don't think it's "care less" but I think it's "care appropriately for 40 hours a week." The concept of "quiet quitting" is a shameful, panicky fraud perpetuated by the power holders in the industry that see their power slipping. "Quiet quitting" has been known as "work to rule" or "fulfilling a contract." My paystub says 40 hours. My original contract says nothing about overtime. I'm not quiet quittin…

> The concept of "quiet quitting" is a shameful, panicky fraud perpetuated by the power holders in the industry that see their power slipping Is it? I always took "Quiet Quitting" to mean, "Lets see how long I can do nothing until I get fired", not "Work to Rule" or "work your pay", or whatever. I've seen this "Work 5 hours a week sporadically answering slack and see how long till they notice I produce nothing" befor…

Companies don't know hot to manage in office teams either. So many people walk in, do nothing all day, complain, are awful to work with, etc.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?

#335

Post by sys_64738 »

muzani wrote: post #177
fendy3002 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, it's Management's objective to keep productivity high and prevent burnout in the first place. They've failed to do so, now that you're taking care of yourself, consider that you're doing their job.

It seems to flow both ways. Management gets burned out dealing with people who just don't care, and they end up not caring about the people they manage. 6 years ago, a COO once told me, "Employees are donkeys. You use a carrot and stick. If they weren't donkeys they'd be running their own business." It seemed like such stuck up, pretentious 'advice' at the time that I ran far away from that social group. But parent c…

> 6 years ago, a COO once told me, "Employees are donkeys. You use a carrot and stick. If they weren't donkeys they'd be running their own business."

I don't want to run my own business because I want to be able to drift along and switch off after work. If I did run my own business then it would be better than anybody with this attitude.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?

#336

Post by contingencies »

It's perfectly normal to experience ebbs in motivation. As you age you can't handle burning the candle at both ends so much anymore. But you can more than make up for this with experience; prudent decision-making beats overactivity 9 times out of 10. Eating properly and exercise, combined with dropping stimulant use and sleeping properly will also make you feel better.

Generally, the best way to regain enthusiasm is timeout, perspective, and a change of environment. This has never been easier than today, with increased tolerance for remote work, many services facilitating remote offices and mail, and increasingly popular digital-first financial and government services.

Furious activity is no substitute for understanding. - H. H. Williams

... quote via https://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?

#337

Post by sbf501 »

varjag wrote: post #316
sbf501 wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could have worded that better. I think it is in indication that burnout is headed your way. When you don't want to a do a job anymore that you used to like doing (bored if it) and you are being forced to continue doing it, burnout is about to happen.

It's possible there are many different paths to the clinical end state, but for me burnout had nothing to do with boredom at all. It also didn't feel like being bored when it has set on.

I guess I could have reworded my rewording better. My multiple experiences with burnout were preceded by boredom, but I guess my burnout isn't the same as your burnout, or others' burnout. I define burnout as just not giving a f*ck anymore, not caring if the project succeeds or fails, or if I get fired. I don't know what others' burnout is like.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?

#338

Post by gigantecmedia »

hirvi74 wrote: post #298
gigantecmedia wrote: post #86

I was in burnout pretty bad while working for a big bank in my country. The work was very stressful, lots of office politics even though they paid pretty well, and my boss were nice (with a lot of pressure lol). I just thought I was not a good employee because I was tired all the time, then I started my company. My gosh, the work was (and still is!) 1000 times longer, harder, everything is so so bad and need addressi…

I'm in a weird loop where I am so burned out/depressed that I struggle to get anything completed, thus I procrastinate a lot, and since I procrastinate a lot, I have "make-up" my lost time. In order to make up for lost time, I have to work extra. Working extra fuels the burn out even more, and then the next iteration of the loop begins. I do not have the money for a sabbatical, and I sadly work in the lowest-stress p…

I’m sorry to hear that. Look, I’m not sugarcoating this one: if you think you won’t break the loop, then you will be like that forever. Maybe lets start small by: reading a book (for me, Becoming Steve Jobs was the book that saved my life when I was unemployed), taking a walk everyday (helps you think and clear your head), spend time with close friends or family or partners or whoever believe in you. Good luck, and I’m on your side! The world doesn’t like underdogs like you and me, but we need not to accept that.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?

#339

Post by sakesun »

highwaylights wrote: post #96

This advice is going to be hated by a lot of people but.. care less. You’re in an industry that values your skills and seems to always have demand. Whether or not that’s true in the future, it certainly is today , so the best thing you can do is put yourself first and worry less about work as a whole. Especially if it’s not your own company. Spend more time on you, on activities with friends and family, on hobbies. I…

Care more, but worry less.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?

#340

Post by cthulha »

From my experience, I can highly recommend:

* daily meditation practice, with a serious meditation tradition.

* fortnightly therapist appointment, weekly if you're running hot at any point

* meditation retreat every six months

When I say 'serious meditation tradition', I mean one that has a few thousand years behind it. Tibetan Buddhist was the path that worked for me, but there are lots of others. 'Mindfulness' meditation, detached from a tradition, is a waste of time for your purposes.

Happy to answer questions, but this cleared up burnout (and lots of other internal friction sources!) for me.

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