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Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?

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Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?

#171

Post by Insanity »

For me, switching teams and eventually job helped. I switched to a domain (ML) where I had little experience but for which I had a lot of interest.

That said, coding for fun recovered separately from that. When I was burned out, I did not find joy in writing code for fun anymore. Through Advent Of Code, I recovered that aspect.

Today (years later), I don’t get to code at work anymore, as I’m an Engineering Manager. Partly made the switch because I was burned out on coding again. And by not doing it as part of my day job, I find myself enjoying it more after work again. I now only code things that I actually want to - without deadlines etc.

I think what I have come to understand is that it’s a cyclical thing for me. At times I really want to write code, other times I just had enough of it for some months.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?

#172

Post by hallway_monitor »

muzani wrote: post #163
highwaylights wrote: post #96

This advice is going to be hated by a lot of people but.. care less. You’re in an industry that values your skills and seems to always have demand. Whether or not that’s true in the future, it certainly is today , so the best thing you can do is put yourself first and worry less about work as a whole. Especially if it’s not your own company. Spend more time on you, on activities with friends and family, on hobbies. I…

Caring less is one of the main symptoms of medical burnout. I wonder if it's correlation the other way though.

I think your are agreeing? Choosing to care less takes the pressure off. People take their jobs too seriously (except maybe doctors) and work too hard. Chill out, no one is going to die and that deadline was made up by an incompetent project manager or exec anyway. If you don't enjoy your job change your company, or change your company.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?

#173

Post by replwoacause »

throwaway_au_1 wrote: post #130
replwoacause wrote: post #53

No advice to offer you, as I am in the same boat, but I am hoping there is something in the comments that will help pull me out of this too.

This page helped me understand a bit about how I came to be burnt out. Hope it helps you too: https://commoncog.com/g/burnout

Thank you

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?

#174

Post by hallway_monitor »

stingraycharles wrote: post #159
junofan wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’ll read the post you’ll see poster is drawn to being a manager.

Managers have managers, though. But perhaps they’re expected to be more self-sufficient in this regard. I wouldn’t want to be a manager precisely for this type of thing, the ability to absorb stress / pressure from within the organization and relay it in an orderly fashion to your team.

When you are a manager, having a good manager becomes even more important. I enjoyed my time leading a team for exactly this reason.

Working now at a startup, there is little to no management and I find myself wishing for good leadership.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?

#175

Post by hutzlibu »

johnnymorgan wrote: post #126
highwaylights wrote: post #96

This advice is going to be hated by a lot of people but.. care less. You’re in an industry that values your skills and seems to always have demand. Whether or not that’s true in the future, it certainly is today , so the best thing you can do is put yourself first and worry less about work as a whole. Especially if it’s not your own company. Spend more time on you, on activities with friends and family, on hobbies. I…

This is great advice and unless it's a startup or your own company there little need to kill yourself working for someone else. Having your own life outside of work and sticking with it can help the burnout and dive into new skills that might lead to a new career. Never give up your creative hobbies. Cheers

"there little need to kill yourself working for someone else."

There is also little need and sense in killing yourself, if you work for yourself.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?

#176

Post by winphone1974 »

thdespou wrote: post #91
mattlondon wrote: post #16

I found that just moving teams and dropping a load of baggage made a huge difference and a huge improvement. I also found that regular physical exercise outside (running for me) is a game changer and totally allows your brain to disconnect. Finally, don't guilt trip yourself on your free time. There is nothing you "should" be doing on your spare time. Want to code? Fine. But do you really? Want to just veg out and wa…

+1 Start doing Callisthenics. 100 pushups, 100 pullups, 100 squats and 6 miles of run every day will help you immensely. Eliminate excuse's.

This reads like a humble brag. You don't typically recommend "start exercising" then suggest a daily workout that even professional athletes wouldn't do

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?

#177

Post by muzani »

fendy3002 wrote: post #145
highwaylights wrote: post #96

This advice is going to be hated by a lot of people but.. care less. You’re in an industry that values your skills and seems to always have demand. Whether or not that’s true in the future, it certainly is today , so the best thing you can do is put yourself first and worry less about work as a whole. Especially if it’s not your own company. Spend more time on you, on activities with friends and family, on hobbies. I…

The thing is, it's Management's objective to keep productivity high and prevent burnout in the first place. They've failed to do so, now that you're taking care of yourself, consider that you're doing their job.

It seems to flow both ways. Management gets burned out dealing with people who just don't care, and they end up not caring about the people they manage.

6 years ago, a COO once told me, "Employees are donkeys. You use a carrot and stick. If they weren't donkeys they'd be running their own business."

It seemed like such stuck up, pretentious 'advice' at the time that I ran far away from that social group. But parent comment made it click - people act like donkeys for a reason. And your comment made that click too, once the whole group acts like donkeys, they're treated like one.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?

#178

Post by alex_suzuki »

thedougd wrote: post #64

I know everyone says exercise, but I think there's a cycle. The work burnout makes it hard to exercise. The anxiety presses upon you that you never have time for yourself, but you'll feel better if you can just get over this work hump. Lack of exercise reduces the ability to handle the stress and anxiety. What you need is a change at work and the exercise to heal the mind. So as you make adjustments at work, also mak…

This.

I find it really hard to exercise during say an extended lunch break or heaven forbid in the morning. It always feels like I’m missing important work stuff and basically don’t “deserve it yet” (that sounds dumb). Also my mind was either at work or preparing for it. I switched to exercising in the evenings, when I’m “done” with work for the day. Bonus points if you manage to do this with kids… it’s hard, don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?

#179

Post by apohn »

highwaylights wrote: post #96

This advice is going to be hated by a lot of people but.. care less. You’re in an industry that values your skills and seems to always have demand. Whether or not that’s true in the future, it certainly is today , so the best thing you can do is put yourself first and worry less about work as a whole. Especially if it’s not your own company. Spend more time on you, on activities with friends and family, on hobbies. I…

>This advice is going to be hated by a lot of people but.. care less.

I think there's a nuance in this that's easy to be missed. It's possible to care about the quality of your work but not care about the various forms of insanity in your management chain.

I think a lot of people fear that not caring means you turn into a totally useless person - that extremely unproductive person in the company that everybody hates but management and HR refuses to fire.

Not caring doesn't mean you have to become that person.

> I find I’m more productive than I’ve been in years because I’m not worrying if something takes longer than expected or is bigger than I realised. I can just enjoy the problem solving and shipping without the stress.

100% this. Care about the quality of your work. If you work for a place where that's never possible due to constant unrealistic expectations, start looking for another place to work.

I've actually found that some managers like employees who don't care so much because they need much less care and feeding. People who care too much also complain too much. And even if you do good work, constant complaining can overshadow that.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?

#180

Post by ivorbuk »

I thought I'd never be able to code again - here's my story. There are no revelations here, perhaps just know that people do, eventually, recover.

I spent 6 years at a startup before realizing it was never going to be successful and I walked away (I was the founding engineer and mostly handled the PM work, it felt like walking away from significant other). I was doing the same, crazy 70-100 hour weeks sucking up all my energy. I had no energy or doggedness to get to the bottom of even the simplest issue. That was 2012. I'd been an engineer for 15 years, and I figured I was now too old to keep up. I gave up.

Since then I've been working Product/delivery roles, which I enjoy very much, but there are frustrations (no EM likes a technical PM looking over their shoulder). I tried to code in my spare time on things but the doggedness to learn/fix complex stuff just wasn't there anymore. Also life gets in the way. There are always more important things to do when you've got kids than spend time noodling with code.

Fast forward 7 years I was trying to get a game running for my son, an old 90's Win95 title. I started noodling with Docker and python. Very simple scripts. Suddenly, one night, I found it was still there, all that excitement about code, all that interest and inquisitiveness that had previously been hidden/suppressed came out bursting out. Before long I was pouring code out like hot coffee.

I'm still working my confidence back up to a place where I feel I could interview for a JOB doing it - but for putting time into my side-projects and noodling with Apps, I have all the energy and focus in the world.

TL;DR - I burnt out and changed roles, continuing to support engineering teams. A few years ago I did some code and concentrated on learning, not delivering, and that seemed to unblock me.

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