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Nighttime charging of EVs may overburden the grid

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Re: Nighttime charging of EVs may overburden the grid

#41

Post by ortusdux »

megaman821 wrote: post #9

The solution to this is going to be have customers enroll in smart charging. Keep your car connected to the smart charger when not in use and during times of excess power charge the car for a few cents per kw.

I got the new Pixel phone, and this morning I woke up to 20% battery even though it was plugged in all night. It turns out that it ships with a smart charging feature that checks you morning alarm time and waits till a few hours before to initiate charging. It is a cool feature designed to increase the lifespan of your battery, but I can't make use of it. My alarm is a fail-safe and I almost always wake up an hour or so beforehand.

Life is unpredictable, and I have had emergency 2 AM phone calls that lead to situations where 20% battery is not sufficient. I don't have an electric vehicle yet, but my concern with smart charging would be finding myself in another situation where I need to drive to the nearest trauma center (2 hrs away) in the middle of the night and my battery is dead.

Re: Nighttime charging of EVs may overburden the grid

#42

Post by kieranmaine »

pjkundert wrote: post #2

And, the attachment of many EVs to the Grid after enabling their innate V2G (Vehicle to Grid) ability will revolutionize them: https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-unlocks-vehicle-to-grid-abil...

V2G is where customers can really unlock the value of their vehicle. A trial in the UK allowed some customers to earn £725/year (https://www.kaluza.com/case-studies/case-study-kaluza-enable...) through selling energy back to the grid - whilst this was the maximum amount V2G ultimately provided greater savings for all the customers involved.

Re: Nighttime charging of EVs may overburden the grid

#43

Post by bob1029 »

tootie wrote: post #20
kybernetyk wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, let the tech overlords plan your life for you for the greater good. Fuck that fishing trip - your energy company decided you’re not important enough to have a charged car.

Simple answer is just "congestion pricing". You want fast charging at peak hours, pay double. If not, set some price optimization. And set it to prioritize the first 30% of charge to never be stranded but always wait for cheaper power to fill to the top. If you've got a fishing trip, plan ahead or pay extra. That's just free markets.

An even more elegant option is to force every customer to adhere to variable rates that accurately reflect the real-time value of electricity.

I was on a wholesale program in Texas for about 2 years. Every 5 minutes my rate would change to reflect the wholesale pricing. There were certainly issues - winter 2021, but at the same time I was forced to conserve energy due to the economics.

Until we can actually store energy at grid scale across multiple days, I feel like consumers should pay what the real-time cost is. Right now, fixed rate electricity is effectively fraudulent.

Re: Nighttime charging of EVs may overburden the grid

#44

Post by TheLoafOfBread »

kybernetyk wrote: post #18

EVs as we know them are a dead end. It’s one of those wonderful solutions that look really good until you take a deeper look.

I agree. BEVs are more expensive than ICE, does not have greater range than ICE, are charging much slowly than ICE, I don't need any dumb application to get fuel into an ICE and with surging electricity prices does not even make economical sense to own BEV.

Re: Nighttime charging of EVs may overburden the grid

#45

Post by ButchC »

01100011 wrote: post #32
kybernetyk wrote: post #18

EVs as we know them are a dead end. It’s one of those wonderful solutions that look really good until you take a deeper look.

Don't be daft. They certainly have their problems, but calling them a dead end is hyperbole. Sure, there are grid issues. There are resource issues(Li, Ni, Co, Al, Cu, rare earths) with both temporary and long-term shortages combined with geopolitical issues. But overall EVs are more efficient and will win in the long run. Should we be more focused on hybrids right now? Yes. But, in the long run, electric wins(along…

Hybrids don't really need anymore focus than they have had for multiple decades now. It's a fully mature technology that isn't going to advance much in performance, efficiency, or cost no mater how much attention it gets. If it fits your needs great, buy one, if not but whatever does.

Re: Nighttime charging of EVs may overburden the grid

#46

Post by willcipriano »

ButchC wrote: post #29
kybernetyk wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, let the tech overlords plan your life for you for the greater good. Fuck that fishing trip - your energy company decided you’re not important enough to have a charged car.

You mean like how companies have always decided who gets gasoline, when and for how much anyway?

I have access to many gas stations run by many distinct firms. I only have a single choice of electricity provider.

Re: Nighttime charging of EVs may overburden the grid

#47

Post by shagie »

philkuz wrote: post #11
kybernetyk wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then everyone‘s charger decides „now is the time“ and the grid gets overloaded

or coordinate them so that doesn’t happen?

This gets into the utility frequency... that information is already out there, on the grid. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_frequency#Frequency_an... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_demand_(electric_power...

The way that power companies "communicate" about load is by slightly changing the frequency.

If the frequency is 60.5, then there's an abundance of energy on the grid and some less profitable generators can cut back or storage systems can charge. If the frequency is 59.5 then there's a lack of available power on the grid and other generators should go on line and unnecessary load should stop doing its thing (and if it has the ability, it could discharge instead).

Re: Nighttime charging of EVs may overburden the grid

#48

Post by quonn »

giantg2 wrote: post #37
ButchC wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a silly statement, as absurd as saying electricity itself is a dead end. The fact of the matter is EVs and electrified vehicles in general are the best answer we've got for the future of consumer mobility. Nothing else really competes long term.

"As we know them" vs "future" You can both be right here. There are many current challenges that prevent people from choosing an EV or against rapid majority adoption. We also have to consider that alternative methods of taxation (how to pay for roads) and the eventual reduction in tax incentives are problems that still need to be solved. I'm also looking forward to the EVs that come out 1-2 decades from now with bat…

> We also have to consider that alternative methods of taxation (how to pay for roads) and the eventual reduction in tax incentives are problems that still need to be solved.

Are roads really payed from gas taxes? Everywhere? I perhaps naively assumed all the taxes go into a big bucket which is used to pay for all kinds of things, including roads.

Somehow even relatively poor countries manage to have good roads. We will save elsewhere. Most of the taxes go into the social bucket in most countries (retirement, social security, health, education) anyway.

Re: Nighttime charging of EVs may overburden the grid

#49

Post by carabiner »

shaky-carrousel wrote: post #6

We have the means to balance grid usage by telling specific families at which time they should charge their vehicles.

This doesn't work unless you pay them to charge at specific times. We tried it at my company, a large gas & electric company. Believe me, everyone is grappling with this issue in the industry and researching ways to identify EV charging and anticipate future EV purchases among customers.

Re: Nighttime charging of EVs may overburden the grid

#50

Post by quonn »

kybernetyk wrote: post #15
philkuz wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or coordinate them so that doesn’t happen?

Yeah. Adding complexity to a system is always the best solution.

Sorry, it's not even hard. Coordination isn't even necessary. You just locally randomly choose a timeslot and there will be a uniform distribution.
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