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Nighttime charging of EVs may overburden the grid

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Re: Nighttime charging of EVs may overburden the grid

#31

Post by nightski »

wcoenen wrote: post #7

"time of use" tariffs will be important to keep things balanced. People who want to minimize their power bill should have the option to pick the "time of use" pricing and shift some of their consumption off-peak. Others can choose to pay more for the convenience of not having to worry about all that stuff. How much more, that can be determined by market forces.

So basically screw over your average mid to low income person that has less flexibility. This is not how we convince people to be sustainable.

Re: Nighttime charging of EVs may overburden the grid

#32

Post by 01100011 »

kybernetyk wrote: post #18

EVs as we know them are a dead end. It’s one of those wonderful solutions that look really good until you take a deeper look.

Don't be daft. They certainly have their problems, but calling them a dead end is hyperbole.

Sure, there are grid issues. There are resource issues(Li, Ni, Co, Al, Cu, rare earths) with both temporary and long-term shortages combined with geopolitical issues. But overall EVs are more efficient and will win in the long run.

Should we be more focused on hybrids right now? Yes. But, in the long run, electric wins(along with mass transit, walking, biking, etc).

Re: Nighttime charging of EVs may overburden the grid

#33

Post by biomcgary »

darknavi wrote: post #17
georgyo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This assumes you can have your car plugged in during the day. It people drive to work and cannot plug in their car, then most of the time it will only be plugged in at night.

Hopefully the ability to charge at work becomes more popular.

Hopefully, the requirement to commute to work goes away for a large fraction of the population so that all that energy can be used for more productive things.

Re: Nighttime charging of EVs may overburden the grid

#34

Post by bjornsing »

wcoenen wrote: post #7

"time of use" tariffs will be important to keep things balanced. People who want to minimize their power bill should have the option to pick the "time of use" pricing and shift some of their consumption off-peak. Others can choose to pay more for the convenience of not having to worry about all that stuff. How much more, that can be determined by market forces.

Here in Sweden a lot of people are switching to hourly pricing plans. I just made the switch myself. So far electricity is much cheaper at night though.

Re: Nighttime charging of EVs may overburden the grid

#35

Post by gjsman-1000 »

pjkundert wrote: post #2

And, the attachment of many EVs to the Grid after enabling their innate V2G (Vehicle to Grid) ability will revolutionize them: https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-unlocks-vehicle-to-grid-abil...

I don't know about that. Consider after a natural disaster, like Florida right now, or Texas last year. If every vehicle is low on energy (say, by trying to flee), and they are all trying at once to charge, that may overwhelm the grid. V2G only works assuming mass numbers of people aren't driving all at once, or trying to recharge their vehicles all at once.

The fail condition needs to be: What happens if 80% of EV owners are trying to charge their EVs to 80%, all at once?

Re: Nighttime charging of EVs may overburden the grid

#36

Post by Symbiote »

twblalock wrote: post #28
tootie wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simple answer is just "congestion pricing". You want fast charging at peak hours, pay double. If not, set some price optimization. And set it to prioritize the first 30% of charge to never be stranded but always wait for cheaper power to fill to the top. If you've got a fishing trip, plan ahead or pay extra. That's just free markets.

That already happens. PG&E charges differently at peak times in California, for example. People just pay for it anyway because they can’t plan their daily lives around the power company’s preferred times.

Cheaper electricity at night has been around for decades in some European countries.

My parents would regularly set the dishwasher to run at ~5am, and sometimes the washing machine. In the 1990s this used a timer plug. Nowadays these appliances have built-in delay-start functions.

Re: Nighttime charging of EVs may overburden the grid

#37

Post by giantg2 »

ButchC wrote: post #22
kybernetyk wrote: post #18

EVs as we know them are a dead end. It’s one of those wonderful solutions that look really good until you take a deeper look.

That is a silly statement, as absurd as saying electricity itself is a dead end. The fact of the matter is EVs and electrified vehicles in general are the best answer we've got for the future of consumer mobility. Nothing else really competes long term.

"As we know them" vs "future"

You can both be right here.

There are many current challenges that prevent people from choosing an EV or against rapid majority adoption. We also have to consider that alternative methods of taxation (how to pay for roads) and the eventual reduction in tax incentives are problems that still need to be solved.

I'm also looking forward to the EVs that come out 1-2 decades from now with batteries that should have 4x+ density and/or half the cost. The biggest downer for me is all the damn tech that comes with them currently. If cost can come down, then I hope I can get one with less tech. Or that conversion kit will be common.

Re: Nighttime charging of EVs may overburden the grid

#38

Post by zulln »

coding123 wrote: post #8
shaky-carrousel wrote: post #6

We have the means to balance grid usage by telling specific families at which time they should charge their vehicles.

I'd say that plugging in a car should mean - charge it enough to get me to a hospital. Beyond that wait for the optimum charge time. However there should also be a screen that overrides this if you are going on a trip or something.

I thought that was already the standard? Most people here in Sweden I have talked to do like that. It first charges to some threshold and then automatically the rest when it is as cheap as possible.

You just configure a time in the morning you want it to be fully charged and the charger do the rest.

Edit, people with their own house and thereby their own charger.

Re: Nighttime charging of EVs may overburden the grid

#39

Post by quonn »

01100011 wrote: post #32
kybernetyk wrote: post #18

EVs as we know them are a dead end. It’s one of those wonderful solutions that look really good until you take a deeper look.

Don't be daft. They certainly have their problems, but calling them a dead end is hyperbole. Sure, there are grid issues. There are resource issues(Li, Ni, Co, Al, Cu, rare earths) with both temporary and long-term shortages combined with geopolitical issues. But overall EVs are more efficient and will win in the long run. Should we be more focused on hybrids right now? Yes. But, in the long run, electric wins(along…

LFP batteries don't even need No or Co, just Li.

> Should we be more focused on hybrids right now?

I think most people overestimate the distance they really need. I have not charged at a public charger for months. Charging at home is so convenient, I never want to go back to the hassle with gas.

And for the occasional road trip, superchargers are fine.

Re: Nighttime charging of EVs may overburden the grid

#40

Post by r00fus »

pgt wrote: post #16
paulsutter wrote: post #3

We were thinking to add PV to the roof of the office for daytime charging of employee cars. The cheapest power, and the right time to use it

That's one way to get 'em back in the office! :)

This may be anecdotal but of my friends and coworkers who own an EV, it's a real draw to reduce your utility bill at home by charging at least 1-2 days in the office.
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