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Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?

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Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?

#241
post #237
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to flow both ways. Management gets burned out dealing with people who just don't care, and they end up not caring about the people they manage. 6 years ago, a COO once told me, "Employees are donkeys. You use a carrot and stick. If they weren't donkeys they'd be running their own business." It seemed like such stuck up, pretentious 'advice' at the time that I ran far away from that social group. But parent c…

>6 years ago, a COO once told me, "Employees are donkeys. You use a carrot and stick. If they weren't donkeys they'd be running their own business." A COO is an Employee too. Therefore he is a Donkey as well :)

A COO is an "officer-employee", distinct from a regular unqualified "employee."

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?

#242
Write down a realistic but achievable set of tasks/subtasks at the start of the day. Start them, when it's time for lunch, take 1.5 hours and do something totally not work. A nap, a run, a swim something active and restorative. Then go back to work, and you'll finish you're list probably before the end of the day.

If you don't, resize you're list untill you can steal away a 1.5 hour lunch break each day. If you're doing something like hitting the gym or running you'll find you have a lot more energy and generally feel better. That may not solve the problem of liking your work, but you'll at least be in good shape and rested to deal with it.

If anyone calls you out on the long lunch breaks, just cancel / don't attend meetings to make up for missed time. and block book weeks and months of calander time out with complex sounding meetings no one is invited to.

Give yourself space. You're probably still burnt out a bit.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?

#243

Can you afford a sabbatical? The term has roots in "seven", just like Sabbath, so with 14 years in the industry, you've skipped one. I think a solid half-year off every seven to ten years is an excellent practice for intellectually demanding labor. What makes it a sabbatical is that it's a change of pace which furthers your career. I'd love to take a sabbatical and just work on building stuff, personally: from solder…

This is what I did. Took 2 1/2 years and didn't write a line of code for two of those years. I simply fucked off and traveled the world. Half the time I didn't even know what day of the week it was. It was glorious and it cured my burn out.

How do you live without an income for so long?

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?

#244

Can you afford a sabbatical? The term has roots in "seven", just like Sabbath, so with 14 years in the industry, you've skipped one. I think a solid half-year off every seven to ten years is an excellent practice for intellectually demanding labor. What makes it a sabbatical is that it's a change of pace which furthers your career. I'd love to take a sabbatical and just work on building stuff, personally: from solder…

A sabbatical sounds outrageously stressful to me. I'd immediately have significantly worse health insurance, I wouldn't be contributing to retirement, all the while I'd be draining away my safety net.

Obvious for me to say: there's a point in time when you're going to stop working and you're going to be draining away your safety net regardless, because you're retired.

So with a sabbatical now, just think that you're making time now so that you can have a better retirement later because you'll be ready for an enjoyable retirement as opposed to needing to take two or three or five years of your retirement, just calming down from your crazy career.

It's definitely not an easy thing to consider. Do evaluate with an extended pros and cons list and weight each item in the list.

Burnout for me weighed extraordinarily heavily.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?

#245

I found that just moving teams and dropping a load of baggage made a huge difference and a huge improvement. I also found that regular physical exercise outside (running for me) is a game changer and totally allows your brain to disconnect. Finally, don't guilt trip yourself on your free time. There is nothing you "should" be doing on your spare time. Want to code? Fine. But do you really? Want to just veg out and wa…

> I also found that regular physical exercise outside (running for me) is a game changer and totally allows your brain to disconnect.

> Finally, don't guilt trip yourself on your free time. There is nothing you "should" be doing on your spare time.

Don't you think these two pieces of advice are conflicting?

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?

#246
I was pretty burned out when I was a tech recruiter running an office. It sucked. Was doing really long weeks, working any and all hours, often at the office till 7 or 8 on fridays.

Switched careers to dev work and enjoy it a lot more. As others have said enforcing a healthy WLB and 40 hour week has helped a lot.

I dont dread going to work anymore. I view work as part of my day rather than my entire day. I also try to do something with my lunch break other than sit at my computer. I go to some type of exercise class, because I enjoy it, many days. Bike/run with my dog others.

So Monday isnt, ugh the start of another week of work. Monday is a day where I do some work, go to a jujitsu class in the middle of the day, do some more work, walk my dog at 5, make dinner with my wife, play a little video games or read, and then get to wind down for the day.

Nothing work related on my phone. Notifications shut off on my computer. Slack gets closed at 5. Laptop gets closed at 5. Once in a while I need to do something extra for work but as long as that is rare then its easier to keep the balance.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?

#247
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>6 years ago, a COO once told me, "Employees are donkeys. You use a carrot and stick. If they weren't donkeys they'd be running their own business." A COO is an Employee too. Therefore he is a Donkey as well :)

A COO is an "officer-employee", distinct from a regular unqualified "employee."

So you are saying a COO is an officer-Donkey? :)

But to go back to the parent post, what the COO said "If they weren't donkeys they'd be running their own business."

Maybe some COOs run small businesses they started where they call the all shots. But most big company COOs have a lot of obligations and have a different carrot and stick for the C-Suite. And a lot of them didn't start the business where they became the COO. So, yes, still Donkeys.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A sabbatical sounds outrageously stressful to me. I'd immediately have significantly worse health insurance, I wouldn't be contributing to retirement, all the while I'd be draining away my safety net.

If you're a software engineer that has been working for 7+ years and don't have enough savings to survive 6 months off work or are so behind on retirement savings that this would seriously impact your future I think you should work seriously on getting your finances in order.

It's less that and more that you're not maximizing retirement savings at that point, which is something that stresses a lot of folks out.

Also, even within software, I can't imagine trying to find a job with a 6-month gap on my resume. I'm not in the bay area, and even working remotely, competition is brutal. A gap on your resume is a great reason to get immediately rejected by wherever you're applying to.

Not all of us are in the niches of software where jobs are easy to come by. Not everything is web dev.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?

#249
post #82
post #70

Burnout always happens, in every job. Solution? Well, first, not everyone has the privilege to do something about it, but you're in tech so: Vacations. Sabbaticals. Gap year. Change jobs. I've had 35+ years in tech and done all of the above. I routinely "burn out" (aka, get bored) after about 5 to 7 years and move to a new group or company. Still love coding, still love leading projects. Just need to change it up.

Getting bored is not a burnout.

I could have worded that better. I think it is in indication that burnout is headed your way. When you don't want to a do a job anymore that you used to like doing (bored if it) and you are being forced to continue doing it, burnout is about to happen.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?

#250
Burnout takes different forms and people create different methods for coping.

Twenty five years ago I began working on a large project that had no chance of success because of an impossible schedule. I was one of just a few senior people who had been asked to support it, while most of the team consisted of new-hires. (The reason for this was the classic "they won't know that it's impossible, so maybe they can do it" strategy.) After about a year and with some success, things began to go wrong. In order to get things done faster, the team had neglected documentation on the first build (of 13). So even though the first build was mostly on time, the whole team was so burned out that most of them had left. (Attrition was over 60% and many engineers became so disillusioned with their career choice that they switched to something else.) The new team was left with no documentation and no experience, but the impossible schedule remained. Management began having daily morning meetings (two hours) as part of our 12 hour day. Every morning we would re-plan the schedule and every day it would slip.

After working in this environment for almost two years, I moved on. Before I worked on this project I had a strong commitment to schedule and I would do whatever it took to make sure things were on time. After working this project I found that I never took any schedule seriously. I would do what I could to get things done, but I wouldn't work excessive hours or stress myself about being late. This coping mechanism has (mostly) helped me both in work and in life, but some program managers have viewed my attitude as insubordinate.

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