75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12 • Hacker News Board

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#341

Post by nonrandomstring » Wed, Oct 19, 2022, 8:43 AM UTC

rakoo wrote: post #332

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #41

One of the things I have a hard time conveying to non-parents is that the most time-intensive parts of parenting don't last forever. I've talked to a lot of young people who say they don't want kids because they think their personal lives will permanently halt the moment they have kids. I spend a lot of time trying to explain that: 1) I still spend a lot of time with friends and can do most of my personal hobbies/act…

They don't last forever... But they are still there. They still take time and energy, probably at a point in life where you can do absolutely everything but have to choose. It also has an impact on your health, because you can't live 3-4 years with short nights and not have an effect on you. It still costs money. It still takes up some of your nights to do something else. As a non-parent, and someone who doesn't want…

> good outweighs the bad

It's not that sort of rational choice. Choice can be an enemy of joy.

For most of human history you just woke up one day and found you were a parent (no immaculate miracles necessary). Birth control and career centred lifestyles have changed that. And that's mostly good, at least for child welfare.

But what if life were more arbitrary? I remember that strange study on happiness that followed the fortunes of one group of people who won a lottery, and another who had life-changing serious injuries. Fortune or misfortune could not account for their long-term happiness, because people are complex and adaptable.

I think it's similar with parenting. Having children is both the worst and the best thing that can happen to you. Some days you wake up and think "You ruined my life. WTF am I doing?". Other days are filled with sublime ecstasy, feeling literally blessed with something you know is missing from other people's lives, and feeling eternally grateful. And those two feelings are not incompatible.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#342

Post by chronofar » Wed, Oct 19, 2022, 8:44 AM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #41

One of the things I have a hard time conveying to non-parents is that the most time-intensive parts of parenting don't last forever. I've talked to a lot of young people who say they don't want kids because they think their personal lives will permanently halt the moment they have kids. I spend a lot of time trying to explain that: 1) I still spend a lot of time with friends and can do most of my personal hobbies/act…

> The sleepless nights and diaper changes are a mere blip on the scale of a lifetime with kids. You deal with it, then the kids grow up quicker than you think. Don't let the idea of the first few months/years define your entire decision for how you want to structure your family for the rest of your life.

This is just a common feature of our perception of time not constrained to child rearing. Past years seem to have gone by quickly while the present moment seems to have an eternity in front it. It's also a common feature of our perception to rationalize past decisions as foundation of the current moment ("wouldn't trade it for the world") without really understanding the counterfactuals (are you sure you wouldn't?).

Anyway I agree one should generally not let the experience of a few years of hardship detract from a life direction they may find fulfilling, but one should also not take the present for granted or be readily willing to subscribe to a miserable present in hopes that it blossoms into a worthwhile future. We're too bad at predicting the future to make those trades reliably well (though the aforementioned bias will (mis)lead us into thinking we're quite good at it).

> You actually like hanging out with your own kids. I talk to a lot of people who are anchored to some negative experience they had 10 years ago babysitting for someone else's kids, as if that was representative of parenting life. It's not at all. At the end of the day, I actually rush to finish up my work so I can have more kid time. It's fun.

You shouldn't be so ready to extrapolate your experience to the hypothetical future experience of others who are already skeptical. Your 10 year ago babysitting example sounds like a strawman anecdote. I know plenty of people who simply don't enjoy the company of children, their own included. There is of course a biological propensity to have an outsized affection and enjoyment of one's own children, but that is not universally applied to everyone, and not everyone finds endless joy in experiencing the world through the eyes of a child or playing the role of caregiver. Some certainly do and that's great, but it's not a universal truth.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#343

Post by scotty79 » Wed, Oct 19, 2022, 8:46 AM UTC

maxsilver wrote: post #139

WheatMillington wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I'm necessarily having the same experience as you.... my advice to people who aren't sure if they want kids, is DON'T. It's bloody hard, you sacrifice A LOT. Don't have kids unless you're very sure it's what you want. I have 2 kids under 6 and I feel like I just don't have any time for any of my hobbies any more. I leave for work first thing, come home in the afternoon, and haven't had any time for myse…

My partner and I have 5 kids under 7yrs old -- four of whom are adopted and two of whom are struggling with severe developmental delays (and likely autism, still waiting on formal diagnosis). When kids get older, they get a lot more "fun" and a lot less immediate work. I can take my eldest two out pretty much anywhere without a ton of effort, they are fun to hang out with, they can be trusted to be kind and respectfu…

> But also, anything can happen. Anything can happen. Your kids could be born with lifelong conditions or issues. They could be healthy at young ages, but develop special conditions as they hit early childhood or late adolescence. They could struggle with lifestyle issues (violence, drugs, alcohol, crime, etc).

I could never understand how people are so easy to punish someone with life. Especially someone who they'll love unconditionally. I didn't like my life from the start despite it being fairly decent in objective terms.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#344

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Oct 19, 2022, 8:47 AM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #41

One of the things I have a hard time conveying to non-parents is that the most time-intensive parts of parenting don't last forever. I've talked to a lot of young people who say they don't want kids because they think their personal lives will permanently halt the moment they have kids. I spend a lot of time trying to explain that: 1) I still spend a lot of time with friends and can do most of my personal hobbies/act…

[deleted]

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#345

Post by a_c » Wed, Oct 19, 2022, 8:48 AM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #41

One of the things I have a hard time conveying to non-parents is that the most time-intensive parts of parenting don't last forever. I've talked to a lot of young people who say they don't want kids because they think their personal lives will permanently halt the moment they have kids. I spend a lot of time trying to explain that: 1) I still spend a lot of time with friends and can do most of my personal hobbies/act…

I am in early 30s and have 2 kids. Didn't particularly want kids before but also not resistant of having. Absolutely the best decision in my life. The difficult part is that experience is hard to be shared. One can only tell other their own experience but other won't share the same experience. It is like seeing the color red, we sort of know what red feels like, but only sort of. Your red is never my red, and we will never know the difference.

Every weekend is exhausting, yes. After work means another shift of work/chore, yes. They drip food all over the floor, the quibble with each other endlessly, they break everything in your house. Yes, yes, and yes. But it is joyful, it is satisfying, it is fulfilling, it is irrational. And I only get so much time together with them. Assuming 8 hours a day before turning 12 yo and maybe 12 hours a week from 12-18yo, that's about 4.5yr worth of time. 4.5 yr is really a tiny blip in our life. Treasure it while we can

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#346

Post by flurdy » Wed, Oct 19, 2022, 8:51 AM UTC

muzani wrote: post #136

Aeolun wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> until the kids are down at 7.30 Yours sleep at 7:30?! How do you not consider that to be literally oceans of free time? That said, yeah, you give up the whole evenings spent trying to solve some problem, but honestly, I don’t think that, on my deathbed, I’ll ever regret that I didn’t get to solve problem x 30 years ago. What I’m almost positive I’ll look back on very fondly though is every evening spent going in th…

Having 3 kids, I put them to sleep by 9.30. There's a loop that they can't fall asleep when they're tired and they're tired because they don't get enough sleep, so we even make sure they have excess sleep if possible. Otherwise they get cranky and it's a bad day/week/month for everyone. I realise I could just wake up earlier to do stuff, and if I wake up early, I'm also less likely to waste it on pointless things.

Ditto, mine are not all down until 9.30, or worse. Then I am too knackered and shell-shocked to actually get anything done, yet wont actually do the sensible thing and go to bed early as too guilty with the chores still to do...

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#347

Post by bruce343434 » Wed, Oct 19, 2022, 8:52 AM UTC

type-r wrote: post #246

neverartful wrote: post #114

And during that time that they're 12 or younger: - Read to your young children regularly. Ideally, every day. This is something my father did with me when I was very young and I can't express how wonderful it was. - Remember that you're setting the example for them -- make it a good example. 2 specific examples that I always observed: never use profanity (even saying 'crap' was very infrequent), and never let your ki…

Interesting list but I'd considering being less prescriptive in the future. Hard for me to really buy in when the opinions shared are so explicitly hardline: "ideally, every day"; "never" (3x!); "always", "every single" (both 2x) "everything possible." Part of the problem with today's parenting and why it's so demanding are these completely unreasonable expectations we are setting.

What did you expect instead? 3 nines %? 80% of the time?

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#348

Post by novok » Wed, Oct 19, 2022, 8:54 AM UTC

markus_zhang wrote: post #164

ourmandave wrote: post #25

This reminds me of that song I really hate, Cat's in the Cradle. I've long since retired, my son's moved away I called him up just the other day I said, I'd like to see you if you don't mind He said, I'd love to, dad, if I can find the time You see, my new job's a hassle, and the kids have the flu But it's sure nice talking to you, dad It's been sure nice talking to you And as I hung up the phone, it occurred to me H…

Is this the norm in NA? I live close to some elder people but their grandchildren did visit them from time to time. I guess keeping an amiable relationship when he is young is the key here? I have a two year old and have been gradually increasing time spent with him.

You can stay in the village or move to the big city in the other country and make the big money that ends up supporting them. That pattern persists a lot the world over.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#349

Post by novok » Wed, Oct 19, 2022, 8:55 AM UTC

markus_zhang wrote: post #167

bedhead wrote: post #98

I've got two teenage boys and an 8 y/o daughter and this headline alone hit hard . The boys increasingly have their own lives and a growing amount of independence (which is good and we allow/encourage) but these days, scrolling through old iPhone photos when they're wearing Curious George tee shirts and whatnot can get you emotional fast in a way that didn't happen before. They increasingly don't need us nor want us…

Is there a way to share housing with them? In some cultures it's normal for second generation to live with first generation even after marriage (although nowadays they tend to separate but live close by). I wonder if NA culture would gradually allow that. I have a two year old and thinking about purchasing a nearby condo and give it (at least the part already repaid) as gift to him when he starts looking for jobs.

They will still be living their own lives most of the time, even more so during that time than they were teenagers.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#350

Post by xyzzy_plugh » Wed, Oct 19, 2022, 8:56 AM UTC

ChainOfFools wrote: post #281

ransom1538 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"there are a half dozen more who don't give any thought to any of this whatsoever and proceed to have (often multiple) kids anyway." You might have to update this [1]. People do care. People have an iphone now. People can read. The "tons of kids poppin" arguments don't hold. We will see a global wide population decrease soon. https://econofact.org/the-mystery-of-the-declining-u-s-birth...

spend a couple months in and out of your local NICU, as I have, seeing firsthand the depressingly common spectacle of premature neonates being left alone for days, sometimes over a week, by parents (or parent) who can't make the time to visit their own clinging-to-life offspring. Because their lives are already overburdoned by the several other - somehow always toddler-age - children in tow with them. Lives frequentl…

This seems awfully America-centric. I understand what you're saying but in my experience it is a local phenomena, not global. Most parents (or at least a parent) spend a lot of time with their kids at the start of their life.