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75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

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Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#281

Post by ChainOfFools »

ransom1538 wrote: post #231
ChainOfFools wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Be absolutely ready to make a literal lifetime commitment to love and care for this child as a fellow human, before deciding to have one. Unfortunately, if you decide after all of this reflection that you don't want to have kids there is no need to worry, at least, about perpetuating the human race... because for every couple who conscientiously decides not to have kids, there are a half dozen more who don't give a…

"there are a half dozen more who don't give any thought to any of this whatsoever and proceed to have (often multiple) kids anyway." You might have to update this [1]. People do care. People have an iphone now. People can read. The "tons of kids poppin" arguments don't hold. We will see a global wide population decrease soon. https://econofact.org/the-mystery-of-the-declining-u-s-birth...

spend a couple months in and out of your local NICU, as I have, seeing firsthand the depressingly common spectacle of premature neonates being left alone for days, sometimes over a week, by parents (or parent) who can't make the time to visit their own clinging-to-life offspring.

Because their lives are already overburdoned by the several other - somehow always toddler-age - children in tow with them. Lives frequently complicated by various degrees of substance abuse, leading to the NICU births. You would not be as comfortable googling some factoid response here.

Whatever the macro trend may be in terms of total birthrate, its the constitution of those births, in terms of quality of life, my post was referring to.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#282

Post by dalyons »

Panzer04 wrote: post #265
dionidium wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it makes you feel any better I delayed having kids and spent my 30s dating and hanging out and going to bars -- and it was terrible. I was never more depressed. I got tired of dating. I got tired of bars. I was lonely. My life had no meaning or direction. I had a nice career and could go anywhere and do anything I wanted, but it turns out none of that made me even a little bit happy. I remember one summer making p…

This feels a lot like a more extreme version of what I'm doing now (especially the camping thing), and I'm a lot younger.. Thanks for the perspective.

Just don’t take it as a rule though - I had a kid late also and I don’t regret the camping, brunches, career and travel at all. Some are memories I’ll keep forever and all those experiences make me feel like I’ve had a fullish life already, which can make it easier to deal with the no-life of having kids :)

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#283

Post by notch656a »

flycaliguy wrote: post #65
rjh29 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I imagine taking kids to the park, or camping or reading to them, or playing with them it just seems like a chore. Is that something that magically becomes different if it's _your_ kid? With my niece and nephew I enjoyed playing with them for an hour or so, then I wanted to be left alone. I get the feeling parenting is a bad idea in general for people who love being alone for extended periods of time.

One thing that might be hard to appreciate is how much, at least for me, having kids changed my personality. I’ve become a much more patient person. Spending extended periods of time with my kids almost has a meditative quality in which I’m living in the moment and absorbing my surroundings in a deliberate way. My son’s presence in his environment provides a fresh perspective that I can tune into and ride along with.

That's interesting. Kids made me much less patient, and also far more selfish. I have much less free time so I get absolutely frustrated if the remainder is wasted. I have far less money so I am loathe to give it to anyone in need or do much but hoard money at all costs lest the child need more $100 bills for the roaring cash fire they are. I have no time for friends so I have little incentive to be kind or cordial to others for the purpose of developing a relationship. My emotional capacity to care for others is drained by the child, so I have no empathy left over for others.

Pre-kid me was far more patient, far more kind, far more generous, far more empathetic, and all around a much more pleasant and well rounded person.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#284

Post by ookblah »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #41

One of the things I have a hard time conveying to non-parents is that the most time-intensive parts of parenting don't last forever. I've talked to a lot of young people who say they don't want kids because they think their personal lives will permanently halt the moment they have kids. I spend a lot of time trying to explain that: 1) I still spend a lot of time with friends and can do most of my personal hobbies/act…

lol maybe you're seeing it with rose colored glasses... as someone seeing my friends all go thru this right now, for the majority it sure looks like their life is way more stressful and not in a good way. this trickles down into everything...work, marriage, etc. justifying it by saying it's not gonna last forever seems more like a copout, no offense. i maintain that you shouldn't have kids unless you really, really want them. your life goals will take a backseat and your marriage better be on solid ground.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#285

Post by spockz »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #239
ROTMetro wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My son had a springsuit at 1. We would just sit in the sand at Manresa. It was some of the most peaceful, most content, most important time in my life. I don't really remember any discussions from a holiday dinner. But I remember sitting on that beach, and the very important rocks that we examined so seriously. The texture of them. The smell of the salt air. Exploring the bucket with sandcrabs I had gathered. Maybe y…

What is a spring suit?

I think it is a lighter form of wetsuit intended for spring when the weather is getting warmer.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#286

Post by Aeolun »

spockz wrote: post #260
Aeolun wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> until the kids are down at 7.30 Yours sleep at 7:30?! How do you not consider that to be literally oceans of free time? That said, yeah, you give up the whole evenings spent trying to solve some problem, but honestly, I don’t think that, on my deathbed, I’ll ever regret that I didn’t get to solve problem x 30 years ago. What I’m almost positive I’ll look back on very fondly though is every evening spent going in th…

The kids being down at 730/19:30 doesn’t mean everything is done: Laundry, cleaning after dinner, tidying up, ordering groceries/making shopping lists, actually doing groceries, fixing something in/at house/car/garden, taking out trash(diapers), paper/plastic, researching which child seat to buy when they get bigger, parent/teacher sessions. This when you are lucky. Maybe even preparation for work or study is needed…

It’s not that I disagree, but all those things need doing just as much if your kids are in bed at 9:30 at the earliest.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#287

Post by dionidium »

dalyons wrote: post #282
Panzer04 wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feels a lot like a more extreme version of what I'm doing now (especially the camping thing), and I'm a lot younger.. Thanks for the perspective.

Just don’t take it as a rule though - I had a kid late also and I don’t regret the camping, brunches, career and travel at all. Some are memories I’ll keep forever and all those experiences make me feel like I’ve had a fullish life already, which can make it easier to deal with the no-life of having kids :)

For sure. Maybe these anecdotes are useful; maybe not. I don't know. Everybody has to figure it out on their own, in the end.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#288

Post by ChaitanyaSai »

Very interesting responses from both ends. I'd like to add a non-western perspective, and of someone who likes being a parent. You are not the same person you were before kids. Every experience changes you, and who you are. That change is significantly more so with kids. Most of us (or parenting would have been a doomed enterprise) shift from a self-centered identity to one that's stretched out to envelop your kids. It's probably easier in a less individualistic culture. As a lot of people point out, there's a part of us that seeks fun and novelty, but there's only so much out new there and the returns diminish rapidly. Kids are novelty churning machines, both good and bad. You are not reliving the same day. They change (very fast) and you change. And ultimately, parenting helps me realize that we are here for a tiny, tiny flicker of time, we are not privileged in our uniqueness, and identity that's all about us is oversold. I do want to ask much older people if parenting helps them come to term with mortality and meaning towards the end of it all, but that's a tough one to bring up and ask.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#289

Post by natnatenathan »

dionidium wrote: post #249
WheatMillington wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I'm necessarily having the same experience as you.... my advice to people who aren't sure if they want kids, is DON'T. It's bloody hard, you sacrifice A LOT. Don't have kids unless you're very sure it's what you want. I have 2 kids under 6 and I feel like I just don't have any time for any of my hobbies any more. I leave for work first thing, come home in the afternoon, and haven't had any time for myse…

If it makes you feel any better I delayed having kids and spent my 30s dating and hanging out and going to bars -- and it was terrible. I was never more depressed. I got tired of dating. I got tired of bars. I was lonely. My life had no meaning or direction. I had a nice career and could go anywhere and do anything I wanted, but it turns out none of that made me even a little bit happy. I remember one summer making p…

This is exactly my experience, probably from age 28 until I met my wife at ~34. My friends and I would go to all these bars, clubs, rock climbing trips. While I loved my friends and generally enjoyed doing those things, I felt this long-term malaise of meaningless. The loss of freedom getting married and then greater loss when having kids was unexpected and a jarring change. But it has made me such a better person. And even though it sucks going through the same chores every day or when my 4 and 6 year olds are in maximum procrastination mode. I wouldn't trade my worst day with them for my best day of freedom when I was younger. I've never been more happy.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#290

Post by ChaitanyaSai »

dionidium wrote: post #249
WheatMillington wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I'm necessarily having the same experience as you.... my advice to people who aren't sure if they want kids, is DON'T. It's bloody hard, you sacrifice A LOT. Don't have kids unless you're very sure it's what you want. I have 2 kids under 6 and I feel like I just don't have any time for any of my hobbies any more. I leave for work first thing, come home in the afternoon, and haven't had any time for myse…

If it makes you feel any better I delayed having kids and spent my 30s dating and hanging out and going to bars -- and it was terrible. I was never more depressed. I got tired of dating. I got tired of bars. I was lonely. My life had no meaning or direction. I had a nice career and could go anywhere and do anything I wanted, but it turns out none of that made me even a little bit happy. I remember one summer making p…

"Brunch is not life." This phrase is going to stick with me.
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