Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 293 posts

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#261

Post by capitalsigma »

nowherebeen wrote: post #129
agentultra wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who collects and follows and works through AoCP, one does not simply, "work through the Art of Computer Programming," in a few weeks. That's something that comes through piecemeal. Many of the exercises are great but require work to really understand. It's not a series of books one reads cover to cover.

I think yes and no. After working for 7 years+, you will hit a plateau. To break through, you will need to study on your own free time. That's because most individual work doesn't get harder after a certain level. It is the scale of it that makes the work difficult.

Not disagreeing that self study is valuable, but it's unclear to me how writing a bitonic sorting network in a bespoke assembler is going to get me promoted to staff

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#263

Post by abiloe »

P5fRxh5kUvp2th wrote: post #226
mindcrime wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it doesn't matter what you think my duties are. And it didn't matter what my manager thought my duties were. It mattered what I thought they were. And on that day, considering the circumstances (some shit job I'm working for barely more than minimum wage as I work my way through college) I chose to decide that sweeping the parking lot was not an acceptable duty. Maybe I would have chosen differently if I'd desper…

I'm sure you're a hoot to work with, but personally I'd rather be around people who have the humbleness to avoid thinking sweeping a parking lot was beneath them. If you can't take pride in a job well done as a store clerk, why the hell does anyone think you'll take pride in a job well done as a developer? That motivation is internal.

> If you can't take pride in a job well done as a store clerk, why the hell does anyone think you'll take pride in a job well done as a developer? That motivation is internal.

This is an absurd argument. They have nothing to do with each other. If you'd rather be a store clerk then why should expect you to have much motivation or competence to be a developer?

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#264

Post by mixmastamyk »

mindcrime wrote: post #233
malfist wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right? What was advanced auto supposed to do? Hire a person specifically for cleaning the parking lot? There's a reason job postings all say "And other duties as assigned"

Hire a person specifically for cleaning the parking lot? Or do what everybody else does, and contract with one of those companies that comes through a couple of nights a week with one of those parking lot sweeping trucks? The thing is, to a first approximation, nobody asks employees to go out and sweep the god-damn parking lot with a broom. This particular manager was just being a dick for the sake of being a dick. A…

At a restaurant we had to sweep the parking lot once in a while. Not the whole thing mind you. We had a short broom and a container on a stick with a swivel to sweep trash into. (name?). It was really spot cleaning.

Was a decent change of pace, didn’t mind it. Would have done it as long as mgr wasn’t a jerk about it.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#265

Post by agentultra »

capitalsigma wrote: post #261
nowherebeen wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think yes and no. After working for 7 years+, you will hit a plateau. To break through, you will need to study on your own free time. That's because most individual work doesn't get harder after a certain level. It is the scale of it that makes the work difficult.

Not disagreeing that self study is valuable, but it's unclear to me how writing a bitonic sorting network in a bespoke assembler is going to get me promoted to staff

It generally won't.

Sort of like how lifting weights won't train you to be a better line backer on an American football team.

You lift weights because it strengthens the body and you need a strong body if you want to have a long career as a reputable line backer.

(Maybe a bad example... head injuries and all)

Knowing how to implement combinatorial algorithms or SAT won't get you a promotion unless your job is implementing libraries of code that use those algorithms... but it's hard to see the forest for the trees if you can't recognize them... so to speak (Knuth loves trees). It can level up your mind so that you can solve more challenging problems or find innovative solutions.

I don't really read through AoCP with a job promotion in mind. I mainly do it because I find the subject matter enjoyable. And I only work on parts I find interesting or when I come across something I've heard about before but don't know well: chances are there's a data structure or algorithm explained in detail in AoCP.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#267

Post by [deleted] »

treyfitty wrote: post #37
mattw2121 wrote: post #9

I had a situation once where we had a minor re-org and I ended up with a new manager. Literally day one, he made an attempt to change everyone's role. We were a team of developers and business analysts. He decided that everyone would become both and spend 50% of their time on each activity. Not sure why he thought this was a good idea, but he did. After he announced it, I had a 1x1 with him and clearly let him know t…

Communication is a 2-way street. From experience, this approach doesn't work if your manager is dogmatic/egotistical and unwilling to hear you.

[deleted]

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#268

Post by saagarjha »

electrondood wrote: post #161
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, my biggest problem with how promotion processes work at big companies is this. How you're supposed to perform at your currently level is pretty well spelled out by your manager - exactly what your expectations are, etc. However, you're supposed to perform at the "next level" prior to being promoted. Expectations are less clear here. This leads to you doing a lot of things you think will get you a promotion (most…

If a company won't promote me, and I'm clearly exceeding the standard for the next role, I take that experience, and describe myself as that level on my resume for the next job. Seriously. If you're doing the job, you're doing the job even if they won't officially give you the title.

Do you put down "staff engineer" if you're not officially a staff engineer?

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#269

Post by noufalibrahim »

It's the job of a manager to understand how to "grow" an employee. It's the job of the employee to convey that in a sensible way to the manager. That's what one on ones are for.

One of two things will emerge. The employee has strengths which can be used to benefit both parties (employer and employee) and can be grown which creates a career path. Or the employees strengths are of no use to the company and they part ways amicably.

This is the sensible way to product growth and trying to shoehorn someone into an unsuitable position is damaging to the company and the employee.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#270

Post by ManlyBread »

malfist wrote: post #223
P5fRxh5kUvp2th wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

seriously, while I understand and agree with the sentiment in general, you're a clerk at a small store, sweeping the parking lot doesn't seem outside of your duties.

Right? What was advanced auto supposed to do? Hire a person specifically for cleaning the parking lot? There's a reason job postings all say "And other duties as assigned"

>What was advanced auto supposed to do? Hire a person specifically for cleaning the parking lot?

That's for the business owner to figure out, why would OP even want to concern himself with stuff like this?

Post reply on HN