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Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

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Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#71

Post by beebmam »

mattw2121 wrote: post #9

I had a situation once where we had a minor re-org and I ended up with a new manager. Literally day one, he made an attempt to change everyone's role. We were a team of developers and business analysts. He decided that everyone would become both and spend 50% of their time on each activity. Not sure why he thought this was a good idea, but he did. After he announced it, I had a 1x1 with him and clearly let him know t…

> Why am I telling you? It's that I've learned it better to communicate and hopefully work things out then just pack up and head to another place.

How do you know it was better, in this circumstance, if you don't know what the outcome of packing up would have been? It's impossible to know all the consequences of our actions.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#72

Post by 0x445442 »

jmartrican wrote: post #21

One of my problems is that I like to write code. Specifically novel code. But the places I work at really want me to just do regular CRUD work and glue work (use other people's code and avoid novel code). How do I find companies that write their own cool new code? Maybe coding teams get broken down into such small teams that there is only room for CRUD and glue and novel code gets too risky when trying to deliver use…

If you like to write novel code it may be that you really enjoy puzzles. One way to scratch that itch in existing systems is seeing if it can retain it's use cases with less code. See if you can make your net lines of code negative for all your bug and feature commits.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#73

Post by cableshaft »

I think it's possible to 'grow' in something you don't care about or are not necessarily your core strengths.

Like I never had much interest in DevOps, but previous jobs have put me in a situation where I had to learn it and although I sucked at it at first, I got better at it, and since it seems to have become almost an unescapable part of a full-stack web developer's job nowadays.

Also I haven't cared much about the domains of several companies I've been hired for or clients I've been put to work for as a consultant (like I actively tried to avoid the insurance and finance industry, and ended up doing work for both). Hasn't stopped me from learning that anyway, and I can follow along (mostly) with our client when they talk about wealth management concepts now, when I was totally lost in those conversations when I first started.

And at a previous job I knew nothing about developing phone systems, but did a little work here and there, and eventually became the department's 'phone systems expert' as I became the only person left in the department that knew enough about those systems as people transferred or left. I handled the role just fine until I left for another job. I don't do anything with phone systems now, but I do have a better understanding of how networks work because of that job, which has been useful.

It is an opportunity cost, though. I have lost some of my other skills because of time spent in these roles. Like I think I'd have trouble going back into video game development after spending so much time out of it, at least at the level of seniority that I would kind of need in order to get sort of in the ballpark of the salary I'm currently making.

I'm still making games in my spare time, but I don't have a ton of free time anymore, so progress has been slow and the games I've been working on have been tiny in comparison.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#74

Post by wahnfrieden »

beebmam wrote: post #71
mattw2121 wrote: post #9

I had a situation once where we had a minor re-org and I ended up with a new manager. Literally day one, he made an attempt to change everyone's role. We were a team of developers and business analysts. He decided that everyone would become both and spend 50% of their time on each activity. Not sure why he thought this was a good idea, but he did. After he announced it, I had a 1x1 with him and clearly let him know t…

> Why am I telling you? It's that I've learned it better to communicate and hopefully work things out then just pack up and head to another place. How do you know it was better, in this circumstance, if you don't know what the outcome of packing up would have been? It's impossible to know all the consequences of our actions.

because they didn't want to switch careers part-time into something far outside their original job description. that sounds borderline illegal as constructive dismissal anyway (ie that job you took? we're cutting the hours on that to half, good luck seeing as much career growth opportunity as you had expected when signing the contract)

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#75

Post by agentultra »

buscoquadnary wrote: post #66
nimblegorilla wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sort of agree. Jobs usually have aspects that seem unrewarding. But if you spend most of your time cleaning break rooms then it doesn't let you grow the type of skills needed to land a SWE salary at the next place.

I can and do practice those things in my own time. I love my craft I love to excel at it. I have a period of time coming up where I will not work for several weeks (still paid though), during this time I am planning on working through The Art of Computer Programming and learning mobile development. The responsibility for me to keep my skills sharp is upon me not my employer.

As someone who collects and follows and works through AoCP, one does not simply, "work through the Art of Computer Programming," in a few weeks.

That's something that comes through piecemeal. Many of the exercises are great but require work to really understand. It's not a series of books one reads cover to cover.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#76

Post by fileeditview »

buscoquadnary wrote: post #24
mattw2121 wrote: post #9

I had a situation once where we had a minor re-org and I ended up with a new manager. Literally day one, he made an attempt to change everyone's role. We were a team of developers and business analysts. He decided that everyone would become both and spend 50% of their time on each activity. Not sure why he thought this was a good idea, but he did. After he announced it, I had a 1x1 with him and clearly let him know t…

This right here. I realized long ago I should do whatever I can to the best of my ability. If my superiors want to do something stupid or use my skillet in a suboptimal way my responsibility is to do my best to council with them, share what I see and then do the best job I can at whatever I am assigned to, assuming over course it doesn't cross legal or moral boundaries. My job is not my Identity we have an economic a…

I don't know how this works in the US but here in Germany your work contract roughly specifies what you do for work.. so for a software engineer it would be developing software and similar tasks.

Cleaning break room fridges would not be an acceptable task. You sure could say yes and comply if you like cleaning fridges but usually people would probably just say no thanks.

If you just exaggerated to make a point I agree with you partially. But you always have to consider your personal growth and satisfaction with your work.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#77

Post by xyzwave »

buscoquadnary wrote: post #66
nimblegorilla wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sort of agree. Jobs usually have aspects that seem unrewarding. But if you spend most of your time cleaning break rooms then it doesn't let you grow the type of skills needed to land a SWE salary at the next place.

I can and do practice those things in my own time. I love my craft I love to excel at it. I have a period of time coming up where I will not work for several weeks (still paid though), during this time I am planning on working through The Art of Computer Programming and learning mobile development. The responsibility for me to keep my skills sharp is upon me not my employer.

You can, but at what cost? When do you see friends, or cook, or exercise, not to mention sleep.

I’m not saying some personal time shouldn’t be dedicated to learning, but if the vast majority of your week is spent on a dead end, the time you have left to keep your skills sharp pales in comparison.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#78

Post by nscalf »

The real problem here is that hiring is a giant pain for both sides. In an ideal world, you would quickly quit that job and hop to another. If you didn't do that, they would quickly hire you and both sides would move on without much stress. But changing jobs/employees is a big deal involved insurance, retirement funds, dozens of hours of interviews over many weeks, etc.

My advice for anyone in this spot is to quit quickly. I've left a number of jobs within the first month because it was an obvious bad fit. They likely weren't happy about it, but we'd all be miserable after 6+ months of me not performing how I know I can. Don't be sentimental about the work that went into getting the job, just go find a good fit.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#79

Post by soheil »

The beginning stages of change can feel very frustrating and you may even see things getting worse before they get any better. The key to growth is sticking with it and going through the difficult times specially when things get tough.

Now if she's being a jerk and forcing you into a corner by learning things you don't want to then leave immediately.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#80

Post by selectodude »

throwarayes wrote: post #33
exabrial wrote: post #10

I would approach this with a dose of humility. I used to think I had it all figured out too; now, older me realizes how ignorant I was and surprised how tolerant management was of my flagrant pomposity.

I agree. However life is short and after trying half a dozen things over a year, it’s creating a lot of mental health problems for me. It is likely I have failed. I have tremendous empathy for this boss. But I also have to think of my strengths and where I can be successful elsewhere.

Did you fail? If you got paid for the work, you didn't fail. You succeeded. We're all at this for money first. If you can enjoy the time spent making money, that's a bonus.
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