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Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

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Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#241

Post by colinmhayes »

ajkjk wrote: post #236
colinmhayes wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't always react rationally when you call them out like that. Being too aggressive confrontational is not a path to changing minds or accomplishing your goals.

Well -- if they react poorly, I'll quit sooner, dodging a bullet in the process.

Yea maybe you’re the one reacting poorly by being an ass instead of trying to communicate in a healthy way.

This is literally the point of the OP by the way, most people aren’t out to get you, and can be convinced of things if you communicate respectfully. No one wants to work with someone who goes out of their way to tear them down.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#242

Post by sbdivuvu »

nuancebydefault wrote: post #240
jmartrican wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for your comment. Maybe I need to be reminded of that every once in a while.

I would rephrase it as, new code is cool for who writes it, less cool for who needs to maintain it.

Depends who's writing the new code. My new code generally doesn't need people to maintain it and those that do end up having to modify it are happier that I replaced the garbage that was there before me.

You can write new code with the intent of making it maintainable.

If your new code is clever shit nobody understands you probably shouldn't be writing code.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#243

Post by ipaddr »

chasd00 wrote: post #209
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, my biggest problem with how promotion processes work at big companies is this. How you're supposed to perform at your currently level is pretty well spelled out by your manager - exactly what your expectations are, etc. However, you're supposed to perform at the "next level" prior to being promoted. Expectations are less clear here. This leads to you doing a lot of things you think will get you a promotion (most…

promotion gets progressively harder the further up the org chart you go. There's just fewer and fewer slots and better and better people trying to get them. I'm at a level now where the next level up just looks miserable. The people I know one level up are the most intelligent productive people I know but almost every single one of them has some bizarre unexplained health issue likely related to stress. The things my…

Let me guess you work at Amazon.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#244

Post by jimmygrapes »

mindcrime wrote: post #233
malfist wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right? What was advanced auto supposed to do? Hire a person specifically for cleaning the parking lot? There's a reason job postings all say "And other duties as assigned"

Hire a person specifically for cleaning the parking lot? Or do what everybody else does, and contract with one of those companies that comes through a couple of nights a week with one of those parking lot sweeping trucks? The thing is, to a first approximation, nobody asks employees to go out and sweep the god-damn parking lot with a broom. This particular manager was just being a dick for the sake of being a dick. A…

Here is the missing piece of the tale: why did the manager want the parking lot swept?

I've been in a shitload of positions where I was assigned menial tasks for a variety of reasons. In some of those. positions I could say no without drama, in some I could quit, in some I could say "Yes sir/ma'am", in some I could delegate, in some I could outsource. In every case, I could respectfully and tactfully ask why.

"Is there any specific area that needs extra attention?"

"Will somebody else be covering my standard duties while I do this?"

"Is this going to be part of my regular duties or is this just to keep me busy?"

... and so on. Tone matters depending on the relationship you have with the manager. But a violent reactive act and profanity doesn't seem like the best way regardless of how righteous you feel years down the road.

I wouldn't hire you if this was your "tell me about a time you dealt with adversity in the workplace" interview answer, that's for sure.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#245

Post by quickthrower2 »

> Well I just want to say, the industry has an obsession with "growth" in performance reviews. But the reality is that growth only works when you build on someone's strengths. Trying to ask someone to grow by changing who they fundamentally are, leads to withdrawal, stagnation, and anti-growth. I'm actually getting worse at my job, not better, because I'm being forced to be something I'm not. It's depressing, draining, and frustrating. I can't be who I fundamentally am in my role.

I totally agree with this. What poor companies do is try to force you into a process no matter what. The process is king and if you don't fit it, get out.

What they should do is go grab a coffee with you and ask you what your desires are on a regular basis. And even to some extent make the company strategy malleable to this (across all staff). That is if employee churn is an issue, which of course it is because hiring is a big hassle!

Obviously the more people in the company, the more standardization of process you need. You may have less need for certain roles that are jacks of all trades and need specialist squads. But there should be always room for asking staff what they ideally want and trying to get them closer to that.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#246

Post by adave »

Wow you just summed up my current situation except i didn't do any of the coaching and went quiet and stopped interacting much. It sucks that management has such an impact on their devs and there is no one to check this. Imo senior engineers should push for change but they wont as its easy to fool/manage an ignorant manager.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#247

Post by adave »

mindcrime wrote: post #234
RobRivera wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm getting the impression many are not entering into good faith discussion on understanding your perspective and attempting to not only invalidate your experience, but to also cast judgement.

This is HN, it's expected. :-)

Yeah these people have not worked these jobs and the type of thing workers already have to do on the regular like cleaning pee on the shop floor. I agree cleaning that parking lot was a power control move and things just would have gotten worse as they were probably going to use you to make an example of.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#248

Post by adave »

P5fRxh5kUvp2th wrote: post #226
mindcrime wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it doesn't matter what you think my duties are. And it didn't matter what my manager thought my duties were. It mattered what I thought they were. And on that day, considering the circumstances (some shit job I'm working for barely more than minimum wage as I work my way through college) I chose to decide that sweeping the parking lot was not an acceptable duty. Maybe I would have chosen differently if I'd desper…

I'm sure you're a hoot to work with, but personally I'd rather be around people who have the humbleness to avoid thinking sweeping a parking lot was beneath them. If you can't take pride in a job well done as a store clerk, why the hell does anyone think you'll take pride in a job well done as a developer? That motivation is internal.

Seriously you must be so fun to work with.It's a person's choice and there is no pride in being a low paid worker, get over yourself.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#249

Post by theincredulousk »

P5fRxh5kUvp2th wrote: post #192
theincredulousk wrote: post #141

There is a leadership book called "First Break all the Rules - What the World's Greatest Managers Do Differently". It's data driven by a large meta-survey and research project. One of the conclusions was that, essentially, the normal instinct with Performance Management to focus on improving weaknesses is wrong and leads to sub-optimal outcomes. The best managers actually doubled down on each individuals strengths, a…

Oh wow, you mean every book in existence got it wrong until this book came along and now we have THE ANSWER?!?!?! Thank god they solved that problem! No, this is typical "The only way to be smarter than everyone else is to do it different so I gotta do it different". good managers are good because they're good managers, not because of this 1 weird trick.

It's an entire book, based on a massive research project, of which that was one small result. The clickbait title of the book is because that is what sells books.

"good managers are good because they're good managers"

LOL thanks. I guess all these books are pointless because you figured it out! Thank god you solved the problem!

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#250

Post by P5fRxh5kUvp2th »

adave wrote: post #247
mindcrime wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is HN, it's expected. :-)

Yeah these people have not worked these jobs and the type of thing workers already have to do on the regular like cleaning pee on the shop floor. I agree cleaning that parking lot was a power control move and things just would have gotten worse as they were probably going to use you to make an example of.

wrong. I've been homeless and have worked many many factory jobs in my life, including chicken factories and I promise you that shit is worse than sweeping up pee from a floor.

There's a word for people who throw tantrum's and walk off of a clerk job because they were asked to sweep a parking lot: privileged.

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