Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 293 posts

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#231

Post by wing-_-nuts »

bornfreddy wrote: post #221
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #110

Let me guess, your boss tried to force you into a lead / staff / management role? Same thing happened to me. As I've gotten older management has been been more insistent on me taking a 'leadership' role. What they don't tell you is this is 2x the work (and the sort of work you hate the most) for ~ 10% more pay. 10% is the carrot. The stick is that they start telling you you're 'top of band' for a sr dev and that they…

Only 10%? The difference is much bigger in my experience. But yes, it's a different skillset and you need to work on honing it.

Yeah, I don't work at Big N. The pay bump for staff in the south east seems to be pretty damned paltry. Certainly not enough to compensate me for the extra hassle of being team lead.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#232

Post by LawTalkingGuy »

topkai22 wrote: post #174
blululu wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know who is going to be the first one fired and the last one promoted? The SWE who is being asked to do some bogus tasks that aren't even close to what they are capable of. In many cases you are in one way or another obligated to act as you suggest, but it is not always good for you personally and simply pretending that you aren't getting screwed is pretty naive. You often don't really have much of a choice in th…

I have a good friend who runs a smallish (100 person) company with about 30-40 (mechanical) engineers. One of their long-term custodians got ill for a long spell and so engineers were asked to take out their own trash. Some people just refused to do so, to the point it got smelly and affected the org. One of the execs got fed up and took all the smelly trash out herself one night and then started going around and ind…

You can hire a temp cleaner instantly in almost any city. They literally wasted more money arguing with engineers than they would paying for the work to be done.

> Be thoughtful in what you evaluate as a "bogus" task.

Well, no. a business is all about money and if the engineers can bill they shouldn't waste their time on anything else. Management in a firm basically exists to facilitate billable hours so the employee here is right, both personally and professionally, in realizing that this is not only silly but corporate suicide.

> What is hard or complex isn't always what is important or noticed.

This is true. If you have a chance to pick your boss's suit up before a meeting or drive them to the airport it is probably worth doing, little favors go a long way.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#233

Post by mindcrime »

malfist wrote: post #223
P5fRxh5kUvp2th wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

seriously, while I understand and agree with the sentiment in general, you're a clerk at a small store, sweeping the parking lot doesn't seem outside of your duties.

Right? What was advanced auto supposed to do? Hire a person specifically for cleaning the parking lot? There's a reason job postings all say "And other duties as assigned"

Hire a person specifically for cleaning the parking lot?

Or do what everybody else does, and contract with one of those companies that comes through a couple of nights a week with one of those parking lot sweeping trucks?

The thing is, to a first approximation, nobody asks employees to go out and sweep the god-damn parking lot with a broom. This particular manager was just being a dick for the sake of being a dick. And I'm not somebody you can bully like that, because I will happily tell you to go fuck yourself and walk out. shrug

There's a reason job postings all say "And other duties as assigned"

And do you actually think that people take that to literally mean anything? Is there no task whatsoever that you would refuse to do? If so, I'd say you are a very strange person, as most people in my experience do have a line. That line is going to vary a lot from person to person, but I don't think I know a single person who would honestly say "Yes, I will do anything for my boss based on that clause in the job description."

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#234

Post by mindcrime »

RobRivera wrote: post #229
mindcrime wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it doesn't matter what you think my duties are. And it didn't matter what my manager thought my duties were. It mattered what I thought they were. And on that day, considering the circumstances (some shit job I'm working for barely more than minimum wage as I work my way through college) I chose to decide that sweeping the parking lot was not an acceptable duty. Maybe I would have chosen differently if I'd desper…

I'm getting the impression many are not entering into good faith discussion on understanding your perspective and attempting to not only invalidate your experience, but to also cast judgement.

This is HN, it's expected. :-)

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#235

Post by ajkjk »

datavirtue wrote: post #224
ajkjk wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the magnitude of your response should be calibrated to the magnitude of the grievance. A new boss coming in and changing everything in a way nobody signed up for or is on board with is very egregious, and I _will_ quit if they don't back down, so I'm going to tell them that. It's a statement of fact. If they don't stop, and I quit, and I didn't say that ahead of time, then I haven't communicated what I meant to.

I find it much more satisfying to smile and nod and then leave unexpectedly without notice.

mm. I don't believe in doing that. You don't owe anything to the company as an abstract entity, but I believe you can be honest about your plans because it's respectful of the people around you, as people.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#236

Post by ajkjk »

colinmhayes wrote: post #170
ajkjk wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I had a 1x1 with him and clearly let him know that he was the boss and I'd do my best to accomplish anything he assigned me. Never understood this attitude. I'd have told him that what he was doing was very inappropriate (without buy-in from the team), and if he doesn't back off I'll quit. He can ask around for other opinions so it's not just coming from me but it's a hard line. Of course this mostly works cause as…

People don't always react rationally when you call them out like that. Being too aggressive confrontational is not a path to changing minds or accomplishing your goals.

Well -- if they react poorly, I'll quit sooner, dodging a bullet in the process.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#237

Post by nuancebydefault »

Very relatable to what happened in my previous job. Thing is... you try and try to do your best to grow so that you fit in. Every evening thinking, man it was hard, what can i change, how can i be more efficient, how can i pick up that skill faster, learn faster such that they will be content. Until you finally realize, this job/boss is not for me. Search/find another one. MUCH happier.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#238

Post by duped »

ajkjk wrote: post #236
colinmhayes wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't always react rationally when you call them out like that. Being too aggressive confrontational is not a path to changing minds or accomplishing your goals.

Well -- if they react poorly, I'll quit sooner, dodging a bullet in the process.

It sounds like you're the one who is reacting poorly in this context. OP is describing exactly what you're talking about without being an asshole about it.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#239

Post by nuancebydefault »

throwarayes wrote: post #33
exabrial wrote: post #10

I would approach this with a dose of humility. I used to think I had it all figured out too; now, older me realizes how ignorant I was and surprised how tolerant management was of my flagrant pomposity.

I agree. However life is short and after trying half a dozen things over a year, it’s creating a lot of mental health problems for me. It is likely I have failed. I have tremendous empathy for this boss. But I also have to think of my strengths and where I can be successful elsewhere.

Time has come to tell yourself not to dwell on it anymore. Find another job, you will be surprised how much of a difference it will be. Company culture, styles of management, relations with colleagues, all need a fresh start.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#240

Post by nuancebydefault »

jmartrican wrote: post #57
fefe23 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New code is not cool. Today's new code is tomorrow's legacy code. It will need updates, security vulnerabilities will be discovered in it, and it will break occasionally or maybe lose data. Someone will have to maintain it. People need to have more respect when it comes to new code. It should be treated like unexploded ordnance.

Thank you for your comment. Maybe I need to be reminded of that every once in a while.

I would rephrase it as, new code is cool for who writes it, less cool for who needs to maintain it.
Post reply on HN