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Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

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Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#161

Post by electrondood »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #94
ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #17

Personally I think the concept of growth is a scam to get people to work harder for less. You can certainly grow your skill set, but intelligent people can rise to the occasion in most jobs. Including CEO/Director/High level decision making jobs. Everytime I have received some insultingly low offer from a startup, they start talking about "growth", "what I can own", "wearing many hats". Meanwhile, the founder is sitt…

Yes, my biggest problem with how promotion processes work at big companies is this. How you're supposed to perform at your currently level is pretty well spelled out by your manager - exactly what your expectations are, etc. However, you're supposed to perform at the "next level" prior to being promoted. Expectations are less clear here. This leads to you doing a lot of things you think will get you a promotion (most…

If a company won't promote me, and I'm clearly exceeding the standard for the next role, I take that experience, and describe myself as that level on my resume for the next job. Seriously.

If you're doing the job, you're doing the job even if they won't officially give you the title.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#162

Post by neon_electro »

Gareth321 wrote: post #93
ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #17

Personally I think the concept of growth is a scam to get people to work harder for less. You can certainly grow your skill set, but intelligent people can rise to the occasion in most jobs. Including CEO/Director/High level decision making jobs. Everytime I have received some insultingly low offer from a startup, they start talking about "growth", "what I can own", "wearing many hats". Meanwhile, the founder is sitt…

> Personally I think the concept of growth is a scam to get people to work harder for less. I've certainly seen this employed as a way to argue against wage increases. "If we're going to pay you 15% more, how are you going to add 15% more value?" Sadly this rhetoric often works on people because it sounds so obviously intuitive at first. Thing is, jobs can become more valuable even if they're exactly the same, and th…

>"If we're going to pay you 15% more, how are you going to add 15% more value?"

This quote assumes that the employer refuses to acknowledge the employee adds more value than what their compensation represents.

I'm always of the mind that my value to my employer is 1.5-2x what I'm actually getting paid, at the low end. Asking for more money is simply trying to better negotiate the way I'm compensated for the value I'm already delivering. If my employer fails to recognize that, I've learned no amount of loyalty to the employer or flexibility to try to do more can change that.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#163

Post by beaker52 »

giantg2 wrote: post #53
hedora wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Move to another job. Not all organizations / teams are incompetent.

Eh, I'd rather coast at this point. I'm too old and have too many responsibilities (and restrictions) at home to switch companies at fhis point.

I hope you get fired, for your own good, my friend.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#164

Post by tomtheelder »

ajkjk wrote: post #107
mattw2121 wrote: post #9

I had a situation once where we had a minor re-org and I ended up with a new manager. Literally day one, he made an attempt to change everyone's role. We were a team of developers and business analysts. He decided that everyone would become both and spend 50% of their time on each activity. Not sure why he thought this was a good idea, but he did. After he announced it, I had a 1x1 with him and clearly let him know t…

> I had a 1x1 with him and clearly let him know that he was the boss and I'd do my best to accomplish anything he assigned me. Never understood this attitude. I'd have told him that what he was doing was very inappropriate (without buy-in from the team), and if he doesn't back off I'll quit. He can ask around for other opinions so it's not just coming from me but it's a hard line. Of course this mostly works cause as…

> I'd have told him that what he was doing was very inappropriate (without buy-in from the team), and if he doesn't back off I'll quit.

The reason not to do this is that you're very likely to provoke a defensive response and have the other person dig in their heels. A gentler approach is more likely to get results, less likely to create tension in the relationship, and sets the tone of future decision making as adversarial.

If that doesn't work you can try firmer approaches, and you can of course always quit or use the threat of quitting, but 99 times out of 100 leading with that will lead to worse outcomes.

You don't give up any leverage by first trying to resolve conflicts without threats.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#165

Post by malfist »

mindcrime wrote: post #160
buscoquadnary wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This right here. I realized long ago I should do whatever I can to the best of my ability. If my superiors want to do something stupid or use my skillet in a suboptimal way my responsibility is to do my best to council with them, share what I see and then do the best job I can at whatever I am assigned to, assuming over course it doesn't cross legal or moral boundaries. My job is not my Identity we have an economic a…

If my boss wants to pay me a SWE salary and then insists I clean out the break room fridge on Friday that is his perogrative not mine. I mean... I can buy this to a point. But for me personally, there are lines. And there are things I'm just not going to do. Period. I know it's un-trendy to talk about anything being "beneath you", and I'm not sure that's the wording I would use, but there are simply things that I don…

You sure showed them! I bet that advance auto manager thought real hard about asking anybody else to....sweep.

I'm glad you realized your hands were too important to be callused by a broom

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#166

Post by 4ggr0 »

throwarayes wrote: post #100
tibbon wrote: post #92

At various points, I've thought who my manager is doesn't matter. I'm the same person, and I'll have strong output and progress either way. But then I got a great manager with a great manager over him. Suddenly, I knew what it was like to be supported properly. For the first time in over 10 years things clicked and made sense. Turns out, mediocre managers do have a real impact on me.

Yes I’ve learned I thrive when I’m surrounded by hood support and people that truly “see” how I contribute and how I can get better at my super power. I don’t do well when I’m seen as a burden or problem, and “why can’t you just be X”.

Now I'm imagining a SWE who thrives because the hood supports and protects them.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#167

Post by neogodless »

Author Marcus Buckingham has a series of books about this.

https://www.marcusbuckingham.com/books/

It's been a good decade since I read some of these, but I recall that there is often a focus of "eliminating" weaknesses instead of avoiding them and focusing on strengths. But his interviews led him to believe the opposite is best - just work around weaknesses, but put most of your effort into expanding upon strengths.

EDIT: See this was mentioned already - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33248487

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#168

Post by emeraldd »

theincredulousk wrote: post #141

There is a leadership book called "First Break all the Rules - What the World's Greatest Managers Do Differently". It's data driven by a large meta-survey and research project. One of the conclusions was that, essentially, the normal instinct with Performance Management to focus on improving weaknesses is wrong and leads to sub-optimal outcomes. The best managers actually doubled down on each individuals strengths, a…

If you think about it MMO strategies involve picking players how fit specific roles:

tank - can soak up damage and keep the big bad focused on them dps - does damage to the target while healer - makes sure everyone stays "alive" through the fight.

Mismatching roles never really works well. You get similar patterns in the "real world". You're people person does well with end users, etc .. It's a more diverse group (sometimes much less defined) but a similar set of ideas to follow.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#169

Post by lloydatkinson »

Sorry to hear you're going through this. I can definitely understand some of where you are coming from too. Earlier in the year I wrote a bunch of stuff as work was making me fed up and very low. It's doing the same again now so I'm rereading what I wrote. Sometimes writing things down can release a bit of mental pressure.

https://www.lloydatkinson.net/posts/2022/my-thoughts-on-what...

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#170

Post by colinmhayes »

ajkjk wrote: post #107
mattw2121 wrote: post #9

I had a situation once where we had a minor re-org and I ended up with a new manager. Literally day one, he made an attempt to change everyone's role. We were a team of developers and business analysts. He decided that everyone would become both and spend 50% of their time on each activity. Not sure why he thought this was a good idea, but he did. After he announced it, I had a 1x1 with him and clearly let him know t…

> I had a 1x1 with him and clearly let him know that he was the boss and I'd do my best to accomplish anything he assigned me. Never understood this attitude. I'd have told him that what he was doing was very inappropriate (without buy-in from the team), and if he doesn't back off I'll quit. He can ask around for other opinions so it's not just coming from me but it's a hard line. Of course this mostly works cause as…

People don't always react rationally when you call them out like that. Being too aggressive confrontational is not a path to changing minds or accomplishing your goals.
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