Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 293 posts

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#91

Post by Consultant32452 »

At my last FTE job I started straight telling my boss that I had no growth goals for myself, that I was one of the most productive members of the team and was quite happy to stay where I was at since I didn't desire any promotions or anything. He worked with me to put some unmeasurable goals like team building or whatever so that the review checkbox could be checked. The one thing people rarely try is brutal honesty.

It sounds like OP is getting on the verge of the brutal honesty and part of that is acknowledging the actual assigned work makes them miserable. That's fine, and if you can't be moved to a better fitting role then it's time to go.

Another alternative approach is to not care about your work reviews, as long as you're not getting fired, and look for your growth outside your 9-5 job. For the 9-5 think of it as just a tool to pay the bills while you do what you want to do. Performing at around the halfway mark compared to the rest of the team is good enough to not get fired. Use your new-found time, mental energy, etc. to focus on whatever personal or professional goals you want. That's how I started my business and it's going great.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#92

Post by tibbon »

At various points, I've thought who my manager is doesn't matter. I'm the same person, and I'll have strong output and progress either way.

But then I got a great manager with a great manager over him. Suddenly, I knew what it was like to be supported properly. For the first time in over 10 years things clicked and made sense.

Turns out, mediocre managers do have a real impact on me.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#93

Post by Gareth321 »

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #17

Personally I think the concept of growth is a scam to get people to work harder for less. You can certainly grow your skill set, but intelligent people can rise to the occasion in most jobs. Including CEO/Director/High level decision making jobs. Everytime I have received some insultingly low offer from a startup, they start talking about "growth", "what I can own", "wearing many hats". Meanwhile, the founder is sitt…

> Personally I think the concept of growth is a scam to get people to work harder for less.

I've certainly seen this employed as a way to argue against wage increases. "If we're going to pay you 15% more, how are you going to add 15% more value?" Sadly this rhetoric often works on people because it sounds so obviously intuitive at first. Thing is, jobs can become more valuable even if they're exactly the same, and the employee provides exactly the same input from day to day. The market decides the value of a job.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#94

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #17

Personally I think the concept of growth is a scam to get people to work harder for less. You can certainly grow your skill set, but intelligent people can rise to the occasion in most jobs. Including CEO/Director/High level decision making jobs. Everytime I have received some insultingly low offer from a startup, they start talking about "growth", "what I can own", "wearing many hats". Meanwhile, the founder is sitt…

Yes, my biggest problem with how promotion processes work at big companies is this.

How you're supposed to perform at your currently level is pretty well spelled out by your manager - exactly what your expectations are, etc.

However, you're supposed to perform at the "next level" prior to being promoted. Expectations are less clear here.

This leads to you doing a lot of things you think will get you a promotion (most of which is very valuable to the company). However, it gives the company an easy opportunity to say - oh, all that extra work you did was great and much appreciated it - but that is not "next level" work. No promotion. Try again next time. Also, no, we won't tell you what will get you promoted. Keep guessing. Hopefully you guess better next time. Sorry for your loss and our gain. Goodbye.

It is orders of magnitude easier to just get hired at the next level at a competing company. And, on top of that, you'll likely get paid much more, too.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#95

Post by [deleted] »

buscoquadnary wrote: post #24
mattw2121 wrote: post #9

I had a situation once where we had a minor re-org and I ended up with a new manager. Literally day one, he made an attempt to change everyone's role. We were a team of developers and business analysts. He decided that everyone would become both and spend 50% of their time on each activity. Not sure why he thought this was a good idea, but he did. After he announced it, I had a 1x1 with him and clearly let him know t…

This right here. I realized long ago I should do whatever I can to the best of my ability. If my superiors want to do something stupid or use my skillet in a suboptimal way my responsibility is to do my best to council with them, share what I see and then do the best job I can at whatever I am assigned to, assuming over course it doesn't cross legal or moral boundaries. My job is not my Identity we have an economic a…

[deleted]

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#96

Post by cplusplusfellow »

I completely understand this sentiment and I've been there. I was at a job that paid me extraordinarily well (particularly with my stock grants). Yet I was constantly on call, having to respond to hundreds of requests in the #ask-foo channel, and constantly servicing inbound chore tasks. My skills are in algorithmic and low level engineering.

Ultimately a move was what made my life better.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#97

Post by yalogin »

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #17

Personally I think the concept of growth is a scam to get people to work harder for less. You can certainly grow your skill set, but intelligent people can rise to the occasion in most jobs. Including CEO/Director/High level decision making jobs. Everytime I have received some insultingly low offer from a startup, they start talking about "growth", "what I can own", "wearing many hats". Meanwhile, the founder is sitt…

A startup job offer scam is different from actual growth in a job. Depends on the company of course but many are ok if people are comfortable in their jobs and are delivering as expected. That is an accepted state of mind to be in.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#98

Post by spookierookie »

jmartrican wrote: post #21

One of my problems is that I like to write code. Specifically novel code. But the places I work at really want me to just do regular CRUD work and glue work (use other people's code and avoid novel code). How do I find companies that write their own cool new code? Maybe coding teams get broken down into such small teams that there is only room for CRUD and glue and novel code gets too risky when trying to deliver use…

>> gets too risky when trying to deliver use value at every sprint.

I disagree. To me, being afraid of new code or refactoring code means you're working with a code base that has a lot of tech debt and also no serious continuous integration infra.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#99

Post by JackFr »

fileeditview wrote: post #76
buscoquadnary wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This right here. I realized long ago I should do whatever I can to the best of my ability. If my superiors want to do something stupid or use my skillet in a suboptimal way my responsibility is to do my best to council with them, share what I see and then do the best job I can at whatever I am assigned to, assuming over course it doesn't cross legal or moral boundaries. My job is not my Identity we have an economic a…

I don't know how this works in the US but here in Germany your work contract roughly specifies what you do for work.. so for a software engineer it would be developing software and similar tasks. Cleaning break room fridges would not be an acceptable task. You sure could say yes and comply if you like cleaning fridges but usually people would probably just say no thanks. If you just exaggerated to make a point I agre…

I did have a job at a very small defense contractor, where I was 99% a software engineer, but when we had to move the safe (happened twice) as the largest man in the firm and still reasonably fit in my 20's -- I also had to do that.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#100

Post by throwarayes »

tibbon wrote: post #92

At various points, I've thought who my manager is doesn't matter. I'm the same person, and I'll have strong output and progress either way. But then I got a great manager with a great manager over him. Suddenly, I knew what it was like to be supported properly. For the first time in over 10 years things clicked and made sense. Turns out, mediocre managers do have a real impact on me.

Yes I’ve learned I thrive when I’m surrounded by hood support and people that truly “see” how I contribute and how I can get better at my super power. I don’t do well when I’m seen as a burden or problem, and “why can’t you just be X”.
Post reply on HN