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Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

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121–130 of 293 posts

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#121
That sounds very frustrating and while I see comments suggesting to try harder, leaving probably is the right thing to do.

> I have a very different vision for my role

This is the critical piece, and I’m not asking for detail, but the details here are everything and it would be interesting to hear both sides of this mismatch in expectation.

That said, let’s not forget that a job is where we trade our time to spend doing something the company wants in return for money. This is complicated, but we can’t necessarily expect to have our own vision for our role, we can only seek out roles that fit us and hope that it’s an environment that either allows our vision or matches it. Some managers want people to build their own vision, and some don’t. Even though the best people and the strongest growth comes from people who do have their own vision and take initiative to change things, there’s also a ton of work out there where the company just needs something specific done, and that something might not be what you want.

BTW, from experience, a lot of this still mostly true even if you run your own startup; we just trade time for something the customer wants, and it often isn’t what we’d rather be doing.

> With all humility I admit it may be me that failed.

If it’s not a fit, then it’s not your failure. Go find a better fit! Good luck!

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#122

I had a situation once where we had a minor re-org and I ended up with a new manager. Literally day one, he made an attempt to change everyone's role. We were a team of developers and business analysts. He decided that everyone would become both and spend 50% of their time on each activity. Not sure why he thought this was a good idea, but he did. After he announced it, I had a 1x1 with him and clearly let him know t…

Glad it worked for you, but in my experience, this doesn't always work. Making everyone a developer and a business analyst is a super stupid idea. This is not something subtle like rotating people to work on different parts of the same codebase. What is even more stupid is that it looks like he decided it unilaterally (based on your comment).

Why should anyone work for a person like this? If a boss decides to make huge changes like this unilaterally without at least talking to the team, why does he deserve a polite conversation from his team?

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#123
This resonates with me as a programmer who has refused the management path. However, I also think that the more experienced one becomes, and the more influence one wields in the org, the more gaps in one's skillset are amplified. So, grudgingly, I admit that with age and experience comes a certain expedience in learning to not completely suck at things that are outside of my normal areas of strength. As long as my boss understands that I may never be stellar at those things.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#124
post #56
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So many developer stories out there where it doesn't sound like they ever really had a direct talk with their boss.

> it doesn't sound like they ever really had a direct talk with their boss. Sure, but why? Why wouldn't you have a direct, honest conversation with your manager? I'll tell you why. Because it can be terrifying. You don't know how they will react, whether you'll be forced off interesting projects, put at the top of the layoff list, or similar. You can watch how they handle other situations and get an inkling, but you…

>From this perspective, it's a lot easier to just pack it in, write off the boss and company, and find a new job. It's less satisfying, to be sure, but less terrifying.

This exactly. I've tried having 'difficult' conversations with my boss only to wind up on their bad list.

Thankfully I'm at a company with a strong culture now and I'm much more financially independent than when I was younger.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#125
post #120
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Communication is a two way street for sure. But I haven known plenty of devs who keep their heads down and bemoan their boss and wouldn't say anything to them anyway. Hard to know how a person feels in that case.

Some. But there is also that thing where manager is supposedly paid for superior social skills. And lately I am realizing, that good 80% of communication work in the manager-developer relationship or within team is on developers. I mean, yeah, partly it goes with power differential where person lower on hierarchy has to do that work and management simply dont have to. But seriously, it would be nice if managers would…

Agreed, it is a two way street... but that means both have to participate for it to work too.

Sometimes I think the fact that some devs move into management / senior type roles, not always great for communication. Yeah they can talk about bits, but the rest gets lost at times.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#126

Personally I think the concept of growth is a scam to get people to work harder for less. You can certainly grow your skill set, but intelligent people can rise to the occasion in most jobs. Including CEO/Director/High level decision making jobs. Everytime I have received some insultingly low offer from a startup, they start talking about "growth", "what I can own", "wearing many hats". Meanwhile, the founder is sitt…

It's definitely in the same vein as "you will be paid in experience."

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#127
post #32

I had a situation once where we had a minor re-org and I ended up with a new manager. Literally day one, he made an attempt to change everyone's role. We were a team of developers and business analysts. He decided that everyone would become both and spend 50% of their time on each activity. Not sure why he thought this was a good idea, but he did. After he announced it, I had a 1x1 with him and clearly let him know t…

So many developer stories out there where it doesn't sound like they ever really had a direct talk with their boss.

Every time I raise an issue like this with a manager, the manager makes all the right noises but nothing actually changes. Maybe I’m just not direct enough. But I’ve never had a conversation with a boss about an issue like a role mismatch and had it actually work out. Months will go by with no progress, multiple check ins with the same conversations, until I’m fed up and I leave.

Maybe I haven’t lucked out and found a manager who not only listens but is actually empowered to change things.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#128
post #88
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Communication is a two way street for sure. But I haven known plenty of devs who keep their heads down and bemoan their boss and wouldn't say anything to them anyway. Hard to know how a person feels in that case.

From the sound of it the OP really did go out of their way to try to talk this one through. Of course communication is a two way street, but communication is basically the only job a manager really has at the end of the day. It is their primary responsibility and they should bear the brunt of the responsibility for any communication breakdowns. Sure devs can be hard to talk to. Managing people is fundamentally a hard…

Yeah I can't say for any given person, OP, what they did or didn't do.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can and do practice those things in my own time. I love my craft I love to excel at it. I have a period of time coming up where I will not work for several weeks (still paid though), during this time I am planning on working through The Art of Computer Programming and learning mobile development. The responsibility for me to keep my skills sharp is upon me not my employer.

As someone who collects and follows and works through AoCP, one does not simply, "work through the Art of Computer Programming," in a few weeks. That's something that comes through piecemeal. Many of the exercises are great but require work to really understand. It's not a series of books one reads cover to cover.

I think yes and no. After working for 7 years+, you will hit a plateau. To break through, you will need to study on your own free time. That's because most individual work doesn't get harder after a certain level. It is the scale of it that makes the work difficult.
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