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Germany extends lifetime of all 3 remaining nuclear plants

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Re: Germany extends lifetime of all 3 remaining nuclear plants

#41

Post by legulere »

_dain_ wrote: post #12
hef19898 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany heats with gas, which is plenty in storage and again reasonably priced at markets. Germany isn't heating with electricity and their won't be, realistically, any rolling black-outs. Keeping the reactors online is good so, as it means less coal being burned, being ablebto trafe electricity on the markets, frees up the roughly 12% of electricity generate by gas (at least to an extent) for heating. And signals st…

>Germany heats with gas [...] Germany isn't heating with electricity And whose fault is that? Why can't their much-vaunted Energiewende manage to keep people warm? After half a trillion dollars of public investment in green energy?

You can't switch 40 million heating systems overnight, though it's picking up steam (https://www.waermepumpe.de/presse/zahlen-daten/).

Re: Germany extends lifetime of all 3 remaining nuclear plants

#42

Post by legulere »

maliker wrote: post #18

In case anyone was curious, Germany used to get 25% of its generation from nuclear (now more like 10%), and they had as many as 17 nuclear reactors as of 2010. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_Germany

And all of it was replaced by renewables: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Energiemix_Deutschla...

Re: Germany extends lifetime of all 3 remaining nuclear plants

#43

Post by jlmorton »

DasIch wrote: post #10
OrangeMonkey wrote: post #4

Good. Germany was facing a cold winter, without energy for heating, and the potential for rolling blackouts. With this change, it does not eliminate the threat but makes it less likely. Who in their right mind would decom any type of energy that could help stave off pain for their citizenship - especially one that has no carbon footprint.

Electricity does not magically create gas for heating. Electricity in europe is primarily threatened by France failing to adequately maintain their nuclear power plants.

No, but when natural gas is 15% of your electrical generation, it does magically free up natural gas that would have otherwise been burnt for electricity.

Re: Germany extends lifetime of all 3 remaining nuclear plants

#44

Post by wander_homer »

jansan wrote: post #26
hef19898 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany heats with gas, which is plenty in storage and again reasonably priced at markets. Germany isn't heating with electricity and their won't be, realistically, any rolling black-outs. Keeping the reactors online is good so, as it means less coal being burned, being ablebto trafe electricity on the markets, frees up the roughly 12% of electricity generate by gas (at least to an extent) for heating. And signals st…

If there is a gas shortage later in winter, which may well happen, people can switch to their cheap electric heaters to at least keep their living rooms warm. I cannot believe that the green party was willing to severly increase the risk of major blackouts out of pure vanity.

> people can switch to their cheap electric heaters to at least keep their living rooms warm

The grid isn't build for such a load.

Re: Germany extends lifetime of all 3 remaining nuclear plants

#45

Post by _dain_ »

kleiba wrote: post #23
_dain_ wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Germany heats with gas [...] Germany isn't heating with electricity And whose fault is that? Why can't their much-vaunted Energiewende manage to keep people warm? After half a trillion dollars of public investment in green energy?

There is no widespread infrastructure for heating with electricity, the dominant sources for heating homes are gas and oil. The reason for that is that until the Russian invasion of Ukraine, it was unforeseeable that there would be a shortage of gas or oil. And let's not forget that the current "shortage" is a result of political decisions, and not because gas and oil have ceased to exist. Germany is in the process o…

>There is no widespread infrastructure for heating with electricity, the dominant sources for heating homes are gas and oil

Yes and why is that? Electric heating is not some space-age technology. It has been around for a century. There are countries where it's ubiquitous.

Saying "Germany doesn't have the infra for electric heating" is not an explanation. It's just restating the problem in different words. It isn't some accident, it happened by deliberate policy.

I keep harping on this point, but the German government has spent cumulatively half a trillion USD on moving toward green energy, ostensibly in the name of combatting global warming. And yet with all that money and effort, they couldn't transition towards ubiquitous electric heating? Instead, they wrecked their one dependable green energy source (uranium) and became further dependent on Russian gas, which fuels global warming even more (despite propaganda to the contrary). It's all because wind and solar are intermittent, there's nowhere near enough storage capacity on the grid and there won't be for decades, and their politicians have their heads in the sand about the whole business.

Re: Germany extends lifetime of all 3 remaining nuclear plants

#46

Post by jansan »

myth_drannon wrote: post #30
jansan wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there is a gas shortage later in winter, which may well happen, people can switch to their cheap electric heaters to at least keep their living rooms warm. I cannot believe that the green party was willing to severly increase the risk of major blackouts out of pure vanity.

Well, but electricity is also generated by gas (at least part of it)

But there may be not enough gas at the end of the winter. And in that case you should gather any other source of electricity available, even if it covers only 8 percent, as nuclear energy currently does.

Re: Germany extends lifetime of all 3 remaining nuclear plants

#47

Post by napier »

jansan wrote: post #26
hef19898 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany heats with gas, which is plenty in storage and again reasonably priced at markets. Germany isn't heating with electricity and their won't be, realistically, any rolling black-outs. Keeping the reactors online is good so, as it means less coal being burned, being ablebto trafe electricity on the markets, frees up the roughly 12% of electricity generate by gas (at least to an extent) for heating. And signals st…

If there is a gas shortage later in winter, which may well happen, people can switch to their cheap electric heaters to at least keep their living rooms warm. I cannot believe that the green party was willing to severly increase the risk of major blackouts out of pure vanity.

Fortunately it's possible to use the not yet mothballed nuke plants to split H20 and inject the resulting hydrogen into the natural gas supply for use in heating systems and industrial processes. Blend specifics matter, but the necessaries are well studied and adequately well understood https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/hyblend-opportunities-....

Re: Germany extends lifetime of all 3 remaining nuclear plants

#48

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

tomschlick wrote: post #5
OrangeMonkey wrote: post #4

Good. Germany was facing a cold winter, without energy for heating, and the potential for rolling blackouts. With this change, it does not eliminate the threat but makes it less likely. Who in their right mind would decom any type of energy that could help stave off pain for their citizenship - especially one that has no carbon footprint.

> Who in their right mind Activist politicians who value their cause more than the well being of their citizens.

Don't forget the corrupt politicians who've been bribed with a cushy job.

Re: Germany extends lifetime of all 3 remaining nuclear plants

#49

Post by weberer »

preya2k wrote: post #37
OrangeMonkey wrote: post #4

Good. Germany was facing a cold winter, without energy for heating, and the potential for rolling blackouts. With this change, it does not eliminate the threat but makes it less likely. Who in their right mind would decom any type of energy that could help stave off pain for their citizenship - especially one that has no carbon footprint.

I agree with your sentiment, but by no means does nuclear power "have no carbon footprint". It's still a very carbon-friendly technology, but it's definitely not carbon free. (See: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life-cycle_greenhouse_gas_em... )

Neat, nuclear power has only a quarter of the carbon footprint as solar.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/44/CO2_Emis...

Re: Germany extends lifetime of all 3 remaining nuclear plants

#50

Post by jansan »

wander_homer wrote: post #44
jansan wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there is a gas shortage later in winter, which may well happen, people can switch to their cheap electric heaters to at least keep their living rooms warm. I cannot believe that the green party was willing to severly increase the risk of major blackouts out of pure vanity.

> people can switch to their cheap electric heaters to at least keep their living rooms warm The grid isn't build for such a load.

Then how are they planning to supply the electricity for electric cars in future, if they cannot even supply sufficient electricity for some small heaters? An electric heater usually consumes 2000 Watt, that is not really something that should bring the electric grid to its knees.
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