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OpenBSD Minimalist Desktop

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Re: OpenBSD Minimalist Desktop

#61

Post by darrmit »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #44
INTPenis wrote: post #22

The word minimal often means minimalistic in appearance and resource use, what I want is minimal work. That's why I run default gnome.

> That's why I run default gnome. That's why I run Mac OS X and don't waste hours setting up a machine/operating system that could just work out of the box.

This was true 3-5 years ago, but you can now buy OEM laptops with Linux preinstalled that "just work" the same as a Mac. Granted, in the long run I don't expect many to be able to maintain Linux unless they're pretty technical. But the whole "waste hours" idea just isn't true these days.

Re: OpenBSD Minimalist Desktop

#65

Post by mustache_kimono »

smoldesu wrote: post #47
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's why I run default gnome. That's why I run Mac OS X and don't waste hours setting up a machine/operating system that could just work out of the box.

After you log in to iCloud, of course. And then you have to download the Xcode tools, which is fine because it only takes ~8 hours. You'll probably want to reboot after the latest version of Monterey downloads, but make sure you do this after the Xcode tools are done downloading. While you're at it, you should also disable SIP so you can use the filesystems on your external drive, and you'll also want to double-check…

> it only takes ~8 hours

Um, what? Can't say as I've experienced this. Only time I ever felt like this is when I was downloading rustc and cargo from the FreeBSD repos.

The rest is semi-fair, if not completely understanding of the trade offs (rootless is mostly good, lots of people use docker on Linux, no one is deploying their web infrastructure on MacOS, not because you couldn't, but because it's not free, etc.)

As always, use what works for you! I made a joke about how this OpenBSD desktop has like Linux of 25 years ago vibes ... which I'd amend to say, and Linux has a MacOS of 5-10 year ago vibes without the apps (all the love in the world for Linux and the BSDs, and my M1 Macbook Air too).

Re: OpenBSD Minimalist Desktop

#66

Post by MuffinFlavored »

darrmit wrote: post #61
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's why I run default gnome. That's why I run Mac OS X and don't waste hours setting up a machine/operating system that could just work out of the box.

This was true 3-5 years ago, but you can now buy OEM laptops with Linux preinstalled that "just work" the same as a Mac. Granted, in the long run I don't expect many to be able to maintain Linux unless they're pretty technical. But the whole "waste hours" idea just isn't true these days.

> This was true 3-5 years ago, but you can now buy OEM laptops with Linux preinstalled that "just work" the same as a Mac.

With the trackpad working as good as it does in Mac? And Bluetooth/WiFi? And as good of battery life due to strong hibernate/standby/sleep when you close the lid working? And equal support for external displays?

If Ubuntu is really 1:1 on par with Mac OS X in all categories, I'd be surprised.

Re: OpenBSD Minimalist Desktop

#67

Post by smoldesu »

mustache_kimono wrote: post #65
smoldesu wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After you log in to iCloud, of course. And then you have to download the Xcode tools, which is fine because it only takes ~8 hours. You'll probably want to reboot after the latest version of Monterey downloads, but make sure you do this after the Xcode tools are done downloading. While you're at it, you should also disable SIP so you can use the filesystems on your external drive, and you'll also want to double-check…

> it only takes ~8 hours Um, what? Can't say as I've experienced this. Only time I ever felt like this is when I was downloading rustc and cargo from the FreeBSD repos. The rest is semi-fair, if not completely understanding of the trade offs (rootless is mostly good, lots of people use docker on Linux, no one is deploying their web infrastructure on MacOS, not because you couldn't, but because it's not free, etc.) As…

I'm only taking issue with the "Just Works" comment, because it's most certainly not true when you're talking about development workflows. If you're a video editor or a music producer, MacOS becomes a much better value proposition. For developers though, MacOS gets treated like a second-class citizen. Entire swaths of Open-Source software will not run on MacOS out of the box. You don't even get a package manager without installing it yourself!

All of this is to say, everyone is going to have a different set of needs from their OS. Honestly, I agree with your "MacOS of 5-10 years ago" comment, and it's great that Linux continues to pick up the slack when MacOS "moves on" from various technologies. If I could still run Mojave, I would. Linux really does feel like the next-best thing, and with NixOS I hardly spend 3 minutes setting up my entire system (symlink /etc/nixos/ from my git repo and I'm done).

At least MacOS isn't as bad as Windows in the dev environment sense.

> Can't say as I've experienced this.

That was MacOS' estimate, in reality it only took ~4 hours. Still extremely frustrating when all I need is a 32mb git binary...

Re: OpenBSD Minimalist Desktop

#68

Post by sylware »

mhd wrote: post #37
sylware wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so mostly clang then gcc. Totally unable to compile without such grotesquely and absurdely massive c++ coded compilers like linux. sad.

Well, projects like the BSDs need a lot of platform support, where even LLVM is still lacking. You wouldn’t want a different compiler for each arch. There simply aren’t that many candidates.

eat the bullet: cleanup syscalls, write a full kernel using risc-v assembly with a conservative usage of the preprocessor. Get done with compilers for good... and only for that it would be even worth maintaining full assembly code for the few major ISAs and a generic C implementation which compiles with naive, small and simple C compilers and certainly not gcc or clang.

I know what to do now.

Re: OpenBSD Minimalist Desktop

#69

Post by nix23 »

znpy wrote: post #54
CoolCold wrote: post #27

Not related to OpenBSD itself, more for "minimalistic" approach - screenshots with irssi were popular like 25 or 20 years ago. I see kinda nothing new here, just fly stuck in amber. Has minimalistic meant to be "limited"? Then makes sense. TUI based? Somewhat makes a bit of sense. Minimalistic but yet full featured? I couldn't see that on provided sample.

It’s very easy to be minimalistic when you’re doing very little.

Like Linus the creator of Linux? Is he really doing "very little"?

Re: OpenBSD Minimalist Desktop

#70

Post by RunSet »

smoldesu wrote: post #47
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's why I run default gnome. That's why I run Mac OS X and don't waste hours setting up a machine/operating system that could just work out of the box.

After you log in to iCloud, of course. And then you have to download the Xcode tools, which is fine because it only takes ~8 hours. You'll probably want to reboot after the latest version of Monterey downloads, but make sure you do this after the Xcode tools are done downloading. While you're at it, you should also disable SIP so you can use the filesystems on your external drive, and you'll also want to double-check…

Don't forget to keep your Apple development certificate paid up if you want to distribute your software inside or outside of the Apple App Store.

Enrollment is 99 USD (or in local currency where available) per membership year.

https://developer.apple.com/support/compare-memberships/

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