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Former WSJ reporter says law firm used Indian hackers to sabotage his career

reuters.com

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Re: Former WSJ reporter says law firm used Indian hackers to sabotage his career

#91

Post by fareesh »

swores wrote: post #89
fareesh wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indians will read this and not once think of racism Reminds me of the "voter ID is racist" argument

You've misunderstood what racism is if you think it's defined by whether or not the victim is aware of racism. Of course that's often very relevant but absolutely not necessarily. If I walk into a friend's business, and say "woah, I did not know you hired a , they're all stupid you should fire him" and the friend immediately goes "ooh I forgot to be racist, yea I'll fire them immediately" then their firing would abso…

- Indian is not a race (see my other comment)

- Even if you use the broader definition to include nationality, in this case, the "hackers" are physically located in the geopolitical boundaries of India

- Nearly every major country with a large enough population has people in whitehat/blackhat infosec professions. It is an incredible reach to suggest that newspapers should not identify the national origin of these individuals because of what some racist readers might start to believe or become biased towards, by drawing non-existent lines to patterns that don't exist except in their own bubbles. Editorial standards and responsibility should not be driven by the weakest minds.

Re: Former WSJ reporter says law firm used Indian hackers to sabotage his career

#92

Post by rndgermandude »

sandGorgon wrote: post #30
pempem wrote: post #3

I'm not sure I understand the importance of these hackers being Indian as opposed as from any other region?

US and India have very enforceable bilateral cybercrime treaties. And it is very well enforced on both sides. The article makes it seem that India as a whole is operating in some North Korea-ish way. A US citizen can well complain to CERT-IN ( https://www.cert-in.org.in/ ) for any reported cybercrime with proper documents and it will be treated as an enforceable crime. In fact, quite funny considering the US Chambers…

>And it is very well enforced on both sides.

That guy or gal calling your grandparents about that "fixing that virus" or "refunding that amazon purchase" begs to differ...

Re: Former WSJ reporter says law firm used Indian hackers to sabotage his career

#93

Post by watwut »

fareesh wrote: post #91
swores wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've misunderstood what racism is if you think it's defined by whether or not the victim is aware of racism. Of course that's often very relevant but absolutely not necessarily. If I walk into a friend's business, and say "woah, I did not know you hired a , they're all stupid you should fire him" and the friend immediately goes "ooh I forgot to be racist, yea I'll fire them immediately" then their firing would abso…

- Indian is not a race (see my other comment) - Even if you use the broader definition to include nationality, in this case, the "hackers" are physically located in the geopolitical boundaries of India - Nearly every major country with a large enough population has people in whitehat/blackhat infosec professions. It is an incredible reach to suggest that newspapers should not identify the national origin of these ind…

Definition of racism that includes nationality is not "broader". It is the definition of racism. It is also very common form of racism worldwide.

Re: Former WSJ reporter says law firm used Indian hackers to sabotage his career

#94

Post by watwut »

fareesh wrote: post #84
cuteboy19 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No i too was confused why indian needed mentioning

- Because Indian in this context is not a reference to the ethnicity but of location - i.e. it's not the DNA of the people that is Indian, it's the borders in which they are physically present while hacking. Many are unaware that India has a lot of phenotype diversity in its 1 billion people. There are dark skinned people in the south, light skinned people in the north, and almond shape eyed people in the east. Merel…

Racism does not have to focus on skin color. As a super easy example, with Nazi did not defined races and their hierarchy by color.

Also notably, people that have a thong against Indians and Asians I encountered in real life have literally zero idea about internal subdivision. They could not tell sub-groups apart, not by look and not by language. If you have a thing against people from India, it is India in general and you don't care about anything else.

Re: Former WSJ reporter says law firm used Indian hackers to sabotage his career

#95

Post by fareesh »

watwut wrote: post #93
fareesh wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Indian is not a race (see my other comment) - Even if you use the broader definition to include nationality, in this case, the "hackers" are physically located in the geopolitical boundaries of India - Nearly every major country with a large enough population has people in whitehat/blackhat infosec professions. It is an incredible reach to suggest that newspapers should not identify the national origin of these ind…

Definition of racism that includes nationality is not "broader". It is the definition of racism. It is also very common form of racism worldwide.

The only prominent definition one could cite which includes national origin is the one used by the United Nations

Popular dictionaries (Webster/Oxford) don't include national origin

Re: Former WSJ reporter says law firm used Indian hackers to sabotage his career

#96

Post by fareesh »

watwut wrote: post #94
fareesh wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Because Indian in this context is not a reference to the ethnicity but of location - i.e. it's not the DNA of the people that is Indian, it's the borders in which they are physically present while hacking. Many are unaware that India has a lot of phenotype diversity in its 1 billion people. There are dark skinned people in the south, light skinned people in the north, and almond shape eyed people in the east. Merel…

Racism does not have to focus on skin color. As a super easy example, with Nazi did not defined races and their hierarchy by color. Also notably, people that have a thong against Indians and Asians I encountered in real life have literally zero idea about internal subdivision. They could not tell sub-groups apart, not by look and not by language. If you have a thing against people from India, it is India in general a…

The publisher here (Reuters) is well aware of everything I've mentioned. They don't need to customize their headlines to modify the reaction of the people you are referencing. Those people should not be leading the decision making process for excluding facts from headlines.

Re: Former WSJ reporter says law firm used Indian hackers to sabotage his career

#97

Post by [deleted] »

ackbar03 wrote: post #69

There's actually quite a large Indian hacker community on platforms like hackerone, and when you look at their Twitter profiles, it seems like quite a lot of them are from these remote village type places, which I think is fascinating. This is the first time I've read about mercenary hacker for hire groups from India but I guess it's not surprising.

[deleted]

Re: Former WSJ reporter says law firm used Indian hackers to sabotage his career

#98

Post by mananaysiempre »

watwut wrote: post #93
fareesh wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Indian is not a race (see my other comment) - Even if you use the broader definition to include nationality, in this case, the "hackers" are physically located in the geopolitical boundaries of India - Nearly every major country with a large enough population has people in whitehat/blackhat infosec professions. It is an incredible reach to suggest that newspapers should not identify the national origin of these ind…

Definition of racism that includes nationality is not "broader". It is the definition of racism. It is also very common form of racism worldwide.

Has common usage subsumed any geography-based xenophobia into the word “racism”?

(Not that any xenophobia is particularly better than any other, but it’s difficult to talk to people when they use broader meanings for words you thought meant very specific thing. See also terrorism vs insurgency, genocide vs occupation, etc.)

Re: Former WSJ reporter says law firm used Indian hackers to sabotage his career

#99

Post by swores »

fareesh wrote: post #91
swores wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've misunderstood what racism is if you think it's defined by whether or not the victim is aware of racism. Of course that's often very relevant but absolutely not necessarily. If I walk into a friend's business, and say "woah, I did not know you hired a , they're all stupid you should fire him" and the friend immediately goes "ooh I forgot to be racist, yea I'll fire them immediately" then their firing would abso…

- Indian is not a race (see my other comment) - Even if you use the broader definition to include nationality, in this case, the "hackers" are physically located in the geopolitical boundaries of India - Nearly every major country with a large enough population has people in whitehat/blackhat infosec professions. It is an incredible reach to suggest that newspapers should not identify the national origin of these ind…

I wasn't making any argument about this specific case (which I didn't mention at all), just pointing out that "recipient of racism (or anything similar like sexism or xenophobia) doesn't notice = there was no racism" isn't a valid argument.

Re: Former WSJ reporter says law firm used Indian hackers to sabotage his career

#100

Post by tchaffee »

Natsu wrote: post #64
lupire wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are overlooking the "extreme" part of "extreme inequality" Bezos and Musk would work just as hard if they only had 10% of the financial equity share in their companies that they have today.

Musk would have more difficulty funding all those companies that have made all those advances. And there are already very few Musks out there.

One person deciding where all that money is invested is a sort of economic dictator. Trying to live on Mars is polluting our planet. If you don't agree with that use of resources, it's not a benevolent dictatorship.
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