Earlier quoted context omitted.
> carb boat Heh heh. I imagine fishermen hauling in a net full of potatoes and pasta.
A bread bowl with a propeller
"The Floating Potato"
Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs
381–390 of 425 posts
Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs
#382Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tragedy of the Commons is a fallacy. 1. Postulate the Commons 2. Also postulate private interests 3. Let private interests have unfettered access to the Commons 4. Problems! The tragedy is supposedly Commons, but clearly the problem is private interests having unregulated access to the Commons. Tragedy of Private Interests? In any case this seems like more of a climate change issue (again…)
This has to be the most obtuse thing I've read today. First, you bait us in with the bold claim "tragedy of the commons is a fallacy", but then it turns out you're not actually going to show a flaw in the idea that the tragedy of the commons is real. Instead you're just playing a word game which leads to some vaguely socialist talking points. Its particularly tedious as the phrase "tragedy of the commons" has nothing…
I’m sorry about baiting you into reading 20 words or so.
You can go get upset at the more fleshed out comment that I left below. Have fun.
> Literally no one uses "tragedy of the commons" as capitalism apologia. What an absurd straw man.
Go take a look at WalterBright’s (the person who dropped this phrase) comments on economics.
Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs
#383Earlier quoted context omitted.
Keep in mind, there are a (relatively) small number of ecomonies and peoples causing the majority of the damage / side effects. The others can continue as they have been. The current model isn't sustainable. Something *must* change. There can be no actual change without change. The point is, the economies in question (i.e., the over-contributors) need to change and all we're talking about is getting back to normal. I…
A reality where the alternatives are far worse. No, the others can't "continue as they have been" if things change. Most of those countries "not causing a problem" accept a great deal of food and fuel imports from the "over-contributors", never mind goods, services and financing. They literally cannot support their populations without these imports. If the global economy comes screeching to a halt as major players sc…
> The current model can be made sustainable with time, proper policy and technological advancement. If for whatever reason we can't manage that, we're screwed.
Given history, the human psyche, as well as "progress" to date...then I'm betting on the fact that there are better odds of oil and water mixing.
We'd have a better chance 100 or 200 years ago when the masses we comfortable with and embraced sacrifice. Now it's all about comfort sans any sort of sacrifice. In addition, there's a destructive symbiotic relationship with those expectations and how leaders lead and how political parties think (i.e., short term, at best).
Climate change aside, the current model in the USA simply isn't sustainable. Infant mortality rate, obesity, mental health, gun violence, opioids...the list goes on and on. Covid was an opportunity to adjust course. Maybe even pivot. But we didn't have the will and our commitment to "back to normal" (which is corrupt and problematic at best) is stronger than ever.
We can't get off the sofa. How we gonna face climate change?
As far as technology solutions, we're headed for some form of The Matrix. The masses will be comfortable and consumption and pollution will be far less.
Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs
#384Earlier quoted context omitted.
Keep in mind, there are a (relatively) small number of ecomonies and peoples causing the majority of the damage / side effects. The others can continue as they have been. The current model isn't sustainable. Something *must* change. There can be no actual change without change. The point is, the economies in question (i.e., the over-contributors) need to change and all we're talking about is getting back to normal. I…
A reality where the alternatives are far worse. No, the others can't "continue as they have been" if things change. Most of those countries "not causing a problem" accept a great deal of food and fuel imports from the "over-contributors", never mind goods, services and financing. They literally cannot support their populations without these imports. If the global economy comes screeching to a halt as major players sc…
> They literally cannot support their populations without these imports.
That's no accident. It's by intent. Those countries can't develop their own healthy local economies when most everything is shipped in.
Look up clothing donations to Africa. Long to short, there was no way to have say a local cotton + clothing economy when free clothing was been dumped on a given economy.
Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs
#385Earlier quoted context omitted.
A reality where the alternatives are far worse. No, the others can't "continue as they have been" if things change. Most of those countries "not causing a problem" accept a great deal of food and fuel imports from the "over-contributors", never mind goods, services and financing. They literally cannot support their populations without these imports. If the global economy comes screeching to a halt as major players sc…
>Problem is we know what no economic growth looks like. It's some form of feudalism, where powerful entities hoard all the wealth and we all rent the rest. Powerful entities keep growing and getting a bigger share of the economy so we have to grow it just to not become poorer? Isn't it strange that no growth is considered the same thing as a shrinking standard of living? In any sane theoretical economics model, a lac…
> The question is, why does food production need a subsidy in the first place?
Short answer, it's how politicians buy votes. Subsidies get the votes of the farmers. Lower food prices get the votes of the masses.
To your point, if politicans don't have the backbone to reduce such subsidies, and the masses don't have the will to demand it...how are we going to address a problem 100x as big?
Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs
#386I'm just curious what percentage of HN members diets is snow crab, and my point is snow crab isn't corn, wheat or chicken, and the only people this is going to affect are the snow crab fisherman, their families, and the economy of the towns in which they live and spend.
This is a super shortsighted view. Every life form in the ocean plays a role in the ecosystem and catastrophic damages like this have first and second order effects all over the place.
I'm pretty sure my point was the only reason for harvesting snow crab is that it is lucrative for these fisherman, yet snow crab isn't an important staple of any diet, so there was absolutely no compelling societal reason to fish them into population collapse or extinction, not even greed. My suspicion is the majority of the product here was wasted, rotted and discarded, so we should really put pressure on commercial fishers in the US and abroad to find another way to support themselves in order to stop them from killing everything in the ocean rather than romanticize a way of life that is economically and ecologically unsustainable, such as is inexplicably done for ranchers, nor should we frame them as sympathetic victims of climate change.
Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs
#387I "like" how the beginning of the segment states the "biggest impact" is gonna be on the fishing economy, not on the restaurants. I'd argue the biggest impact is on... the crab population? Guess nobody really cares for those after all. In which case losing them serves us well.
To be fair, news on the economy gets more clicks than news about falling animal populations. Just another perverse incentive that makes the system the way it is
Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs
#388My current employer was just talking about how the cost of seafood is rising because of things like this. Don't expect your plate of crab or lobster to be cheap these next few years folks. And if it is cheap somehow, stop eating there. They are probably part of the problem.
In the northeastern US this past summer the price of lobster was maybe 30% higher than previous years (in my area anyway)
Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs
#389Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your first paragraph is probably right, just like we need laws against rape and slavery. Go back in history and you’ll find people who would have said “I can’t imagine a world without that” on those issues too. I’m all for it.
Am I misunderstanding you or are you comparing eating meat and animal products with rape and slavery?
Well, what aspect would you say that I'm comparing between these seemingly unrelated things? Hint: they don't need to be ethically equivalent for me to make my comparison.
Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs
#390Earlier quoted context omitted.
People's actions do not need to be violent in order for the governments to respond with violence. Disobedience is enough. You know it very well. This is just how it works.
Violence takes many forms, from gentle to deadly. What the key difference here is, between a democracy and a totalitarian government, is just who decides when violence will be employed. In democratic states, violence is allowed by specific actors, such as the police, in specific situations, such as when other forms of mediation fail, under specific guidelines. This means that democracy attempts to replace the mob (an…
I am not 5 year old kid and I do understand how things work so there is no need to move so much air. Out of 2 murderers I would "prefer" the one that kills 10 people instead of 10,000. They're still murderers to me.
>"The thing is, most democracies attempt to constantly improve upon this."
Judging by last 30 years I'd say that government in most "democracies" are working to make things worse for common people.