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Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

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Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#321
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which will likely involve not raising animals for slaughter at all, but rather things like Impossible/Beyond meats.

Impossible/beyond apparently have similar CO2 footprints as turkey. On the other hand, we're in the middle of a turkey shortage due to bird flu.

Various sources put beyond burgers at less than a kg of co2 per kg of food, whereas turkey is close to 20kg of co2 per kg of meat.

The thing with plant based meat is that even with processing, it’s virtually impossible to come close to farmed meat in terms of water, energy, and feed. Since the animals eat the plants their meat is compared to, they will have eaten the equivalent of what they’re being compared to in a very short period of time to begin with. Then you are comparing the processing and delivery carbon which is negligible in the scheme of things.

People (even very intelligent people) often seem to estimate the carbon footprint of plant based diets incorrectly by several orders of magnitude.

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#322
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the world doesn't get over fossil fuel addiction and allowing oil companies to push us to near extinction for their profits, really soon, the worse is yet to come.

As much as I would like to end such an addiction, there aren't even viable replacements for every ICE yet. What do we do about aircraft, freight trucks, and sea vessels?

To be clear, those three categories combined probably represent (spitball) less than 7% of total global emissions. We have a pretty clear path towards eliminating 80%+ of overall emissions, and that would buy us some time to figure out solutions for the remaining 20%.

But since you asked:

1- Freight trucks, for now, will likely be either carbon capture, or a clever EV retrofit like SixWheel. Batteries probably aren’t quite there (in 2022) to go full EV for all applications but the learning curve slope is such that that could conceivably be only 5 years away.

2- Aircraft are most certainly going to be SAF eg a green/renewable fuel until battery tech improves by an order of magnitude (10-20 years?)

3- Similar story for sea vessels on the batteries front, though for those CCS is likely to be the most promising interim solution.

For all of the categories you mentioned there are relatively promising 10-30 year prospects for full electrification and much more short term prospects for emissions mitigation. And these are part of the hardest 20% of emissions.

Long story short the situation is not nearly as bleak as you make it out to be.

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have large cognitive dissonance to "we shouldn't be the world police" and "globalism is bad." At face value I agree, but... If you believe in the rule of law and human rights, then globalism seems like a natural consequence, as does policing the world. What would happen if you let China have global hegemony and they become the over-fishing police? What type of enforcement do you think they might have (or non enforc…

Unlike the US+the West, China will never be able to be world police.

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Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I would like to end such an addiction, there aren't even viable replacements for every ICE yet. What do we do about aircraft, freight trucks, and sea vessels?

Trucking industry is looking at hydrogen fuel cells. The hope is that renewables will create the hydrogen from water. For aircraft, the dream is to create synthetic fuels from ammonia. Ocean going vessels are hoping Diesel engines can be converted to use ammonia. https://www.freightwaves.com/news/is-green-ammonia-fit-to-de...

Unfortunately hydrogen has really low energy density, electrolyzers are slow, and it is also pretty explosive. I don’t see hydrogen fuel cells being nearly as attractive as EV retrofits or CCS as an interim solution until battery tech cost curves improve to the point of making full electrification a no brainer (probably not that far away…)

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an appeal to nature fallacy.[1] Every horrifying thing beyond imagination has happened in nature, including all sorts of rape, torture, murder, and infanticide, much of this by humans as a part of that nature. Does this justify humans in engaging in rape, torture, murder, and infanticide? This is a discussion of ethics, not what nature allows (which is everything possible within the laws of physics). [1] http…

I don't think it is an appeal to nature fallacy because I have no implicit axiom that "what is natural is good." The statement I made seems, to me, closer to "what is natural is ." without a strong opinion on it's level of good. Your argument is that we should re-write the the laws governing our reality, something we have only recently become able to accomplish, and something we can't necessarily predict the conseque…

When I think about these problems it seems to fall into this uncomfortable category where conclusions more or less depend on your perceived meaning of life and corresponding priorities.

You can look at the universe as this absurd physical machine just banging away where the suffering of another sentient being simply “is”. Yes, of course it is.

You can also look at the same absurd universe and realize that, to some degree, consciousness seems to confer some amount of agency. You get to decide what matters to you. You get to decide on what life means to you. As you go, you can construct your part of the universe to some extent.

For me, I see it as meaningful to reduce suffering as much as it’s practicable. I recognize that death, suffering, and the messy reality of nature is part of what generated my own life. I recognize that I can’t end that cycle, nor should I because most of nature relies on it.

However, within the realm of the universe that I have this agency, I can choose to try to reduce that suffering. I can try to make this corner of the universe slightly less painful. I can respect and admire the bizarre miracle of sentience, and do my best to sustain it rather than destroy it.

Perhaps that’s meaningless. I don’t have any amazing expectations.

Similar to climate change though, I ask myself “what is the harm in taking action”? What do I lose by caring enough to change?

The answer has been a dramatic improvement to my well-being, and much more peaceful and content outlook on nature and life.

It doesn’t make sense for everyone, but I urge people to consider that complacency with the natural order of things isn’t necessary or inherently wise. Eating celery is as natural as killing a deer or as eating a lentil or catching a fish. Some of these end lives we recognize as very similar to our own, others seem less destructive. We can choose to do less harm, as we wouldn’t want harm done to us. Perhaps that’s worth something. Perhaps it’s not.

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#326

Overfishing is a classic problem of "Tragedy of the Commons". The oceans are the commons. For example, nobody is predicting a catastrophic decline in the population of pigs, chickens, and cattle. Fish farming is the future.

Yes, but this is most likely not cause by over-fishing. Snow crab fishing is relatively strictly regulated since a long time, and while there are always many ways this might be side stepped the amount of missing crabs is way to high in a too short amount of time to just because of over fishing AFIK. More likely it is a combination of multiple factors putting strain on the population leading to a collapse event. One m…

Picking on you, sorry, but what do you mean when you say 'climate change'. I don't think you're saying anything, it's like saying 'bad thing'.

What caused what exactly. Eg, if day warmer waters mean there is less habitat that the crabs can live in, I get that. Or if the deep, cold ocean temperatures have not changed, then that's not it. Or if the crabs have been poisoned by fertiliser, then say that.

I do resent the idea of this catch all term 'climate change' that appears to have answered something while saying nothing. I guess it appeals to us on self masochistic/'original sin' grounds - we want to blame ourselves, and that is a decent, scientific sounding answer that passes muster.

Fwiw, given one of mikedeen's comments, it sounds to me like trawling, and the destruction of habitat, is also a possibility.

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, there are a lot of horrible ways that people die. Cancer, alzheimer's, violence, crippling injuries, chronic pain and depression leading to suicide, war, etc. etc. Does this justify us enslaving people and torturing them (debatedly) less in a factory farm and slaughtering them at a young age?

You can get rid of factory farming without going vegan.

If you look at the statistics, in the developed world factory farming makes up about 98% of all meat produced commercially.

Before I stopped eating meat, I thought the meat I was buying came from good sources. The farms were nearby, conditions seemed okay, it was organic, etc.

The reality is that all of these animals don’t have good lives. They don’t eat well. They live in bizarre conditions. The vast majority (nearly 100%, again) end up in feed lots if they’re cattle. They’re fattened and then killed essentially as adolescents of their species. Forcefully inseminated, taken from their mothers, killed as babies for veal, fed absurd amounts of antibiotics in some cases, many die in their pens, etc.

This is normal. It’s how we farm. Industry is good at putting a smile on it, talking about values and generations of farmers and doing it right… But these animals are bred and killed for cash, no one gives much of a shit about them, and it’s all very grim.

The excelsior pig farm near me in Abbotsford, British Columbia is a great example. This farm wasn’t exceptional. It’s just another pig farm. But pigs were dead in their pens, cannibalizing each other, dead in trash bins, dead in dumpsters, covered in feces, sores, and wounds.

You’re not going to get rid of that. Meat as we know it doesn’t exist without this race to the bottom circus of torture. People are eager to believe their meat habit isn’t based around this or that something better is around the corner, but it’s simply not the case. These animals are here for profit, yet no one is willing to pay enough for them to live comfortably. So they will suffer.

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, how about we shut down large swaths of national economies. That's produced nothing but positive effects for all involved over the last couple of years.

Keep in mind, there are a (relatively) small number of ecomonies and peoples causing the majority of the damage / side effects. The others can continue as they have been. The current model isn't sustainable. Something *must* change. There can be no actual change without change. The point is, the economies in question (i.e., the over-contributors) need to change and all we're talking about is getting back to normal. I…

A reality where the alternatives are far worse.

No, the others can't "continue as they have been" if things change.

Most of those countries "not causing a problem" accept a great deal of food and fuel imports from the "over-contributors", never mind goods, services and financing. They literally cannot support their populations without these imports. If the global economy comes screeching to a halt as major players scale down and just see to their own needs, many of the minor players literally starve in the dark. Just look at the impact of the Ukraine/Russia wheat supply disruption on North Africa/The middle east for a tiny example of what a global disruption would look like.

The current model can be made sustainable with time, proper policy and technological advancement. If for whatever reason we can't manage that, we're screwed.

People say "growth can't continue to infinity", and technically they're right. Problem is we know what no economic growth looks like. It's some form of feudalism, where powerful entities hoard all the wealth and we all rent the rest. The only attempt at something other than that was 20th century communism, and that... didn't work to say the least. So either we make history by creating the first ever successful re-distributive economic system, on a global scale, or we keep doing what we've been doing for centuries and hope technology and enlightened democracy can save the day.

My vote's on the latter, at least it has an overall positive track record.

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#330
post #3

Wow, those are some crazy numbers. Shocking it could happen that fast... what's next?

I'm eating as much delicious sushi grade tuna I can before it's gone.

I suspect the difference between you and those being sanctimonious to you are that they lie about their indiscretions. They probably have cars or pets or don't live in dense residential areas.
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