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Sweden’s incoming cabinet says new nuclear reactors will be built

bloomberg.com

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Re: Sweden’s incoming cabinet says new nuclear reactors will be built

#261

Post by tpmx »

nikcub wrote: post #251
tpmx wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While wind and solar will help, nuclear is really the dominant part of the solution, because of it's ability to work independent of local weather.

> because of it's ability to work independent of local weather. Just this summer the French had to shut down half of their nuclear reactors because of the heat https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/aug/03/edf-to-redu...

Swedish nuclear reactors are all located at the North Sea or Baltic sea that's cold enough all year round, we don't have that issue.

This is mostly an issue for ("partially") landlocked countries. Those french reactors use rivers for cooling. Also the summer period neatly coincides with the yearly maintenance period, so...

Re: Sweden’s incoming cabinet says new nuclear reactors will be built

#262

Post by thrown_22 »

themitigating wrote: post #197
belorn wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair to both sides, the electricity prices at the time when the decision was made was very different from today. We had prices in the south of sweden 2020 that was as low as around €0.02 per kw/h, compared to over €0.3 in 2022, and in 2020 the price trend was looking to be going downwards. If prices had continue to go down and let say had landed at €0.01 per kw/h this year than we would not be discussing nuclea…

To be fair electricity prices vary throughout time. Basing a long term decision on a short term price is foolish. Worse case scenario is the government has to subsidize the power station, best case is it helps prevent serious economic issues by providing power.

It's foolish to wear a seat belt based on short term speed fluctuations.

Re: Sweden’s incoming cabinet says new nuclear reactors will be built

#264

Post by thrown_22 »

f_allwein wrote: post #72
NKosmatos wrote: post #55

The only green solution to our current energy problem is more nuclear power plants. We have to stop relying on coal, wood, oil, gas and the rest of the “dirty” materials.

Except nuclear is expensive and takes decades to build, runs on non renewable materials (a good percentage of which come from Russia), leaves waste that is deadly for 100.000s of years, and promising new technologies will need decades to reach maturity. Now why is it so great compared to, say, solar or geothermal?

>Except nuclear is expensive and takes decades to build

Nuclear energy is expensive, nuclear power is cheap.

Or put another way: Sun shine at noon is free. Sunshine as midnight isn't.

Re: Sweden’s incoming cabinet says new nuclear reactors will be built

#265

Post by timmg »

Isolus wrote: post #99
lnsru wrote: post #6

Meanwhile in Germany: https://switzerlandtimes.ch/world/german-greens-remain-firm-... Welcome to The new dark ages in Germany. Leading politicians even do not have any higher education: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricarda_Lang It’s scary how these people decide about topics they have no idea about.

Germany is a densely populated country. We already don't know where to put the nuclear waste. No one wants it on his or her doorstep. The cost of storage alone is a nightmare. The nuclear exit was supported by the population and not decided against them by politicians. And to your criticism: A lot of politicians in germany are lawyers. Are they allowed do decide for the country? Do they have an idea about nuclear top…

How do ya’ll manage to live next door to France? They seem to have it figured out.

Re: Sweden’s incoming cabinet says new nuclear reactors will be built

#266

Post by klabb3 »

ncmncm wrote: post #199
klabb3 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Energy use in Sweden peaks in the winter, and especially a few extremely cold days. The sun literally doesn't rise in the northern parts, and the coldest days have almost no wind (and frankly it's not very strong overall either). This and last year, Swedes are stocking up on firewood, and it's not for cosplaying reason. Several knowledgeable people predict rolling blackouts this winter. I would love renewables as muc…

The "northern parts" of Sweden are, by report, already massively oversupplied with hydro power. Starting nukes with the hope of power in ten or fifteen years will not help keep anybody warm in the meantime. Transmission lines ought to be quite a lot quicker to complete.

Nuclear is indeed slow, and we wouldn't be in this shitty situation if politicians and journalists would have informed themselves instead of selling dreams and fairy dust. It's not exactly like the rational voices didn't exist. And whaddaya know, look, now reality knocking on the door. What a surprise.

Yes, the north is oversupplied, because they have most of the hydro. Remember though that hydro is a form of storage, so even if the transmission capacity was higher, it'd deplete faster. I don't have the numbers off the top of my head, but I highly doubt that transmission alone can solve the issue long term, even less so the short term ones. Again, dispatchable and/or baseload energy is a MUST. And the people who yesterday sold solar dreams are today selling energy storage dreams. It's the same great story, but it doesn't exist. Nuclear exists, and it's carbon neutral. It's better to start now, then to not start at all or resorting to oil/gas.

There is one good short-medium term effect of the government change, for nuclear. Maintaining and/or restoring the existing reactors could be done much faster than building new ones. Not all reactors in Sweden are operational today.

Re: Sweden’s incoming cabinet says new nuclear reactors will be built

#267

Post by ncmncm »

treeman79 wrote: post #212
themitigating wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair electricity prices vary throughout time. Basing a long term decision on a short term price is foolish. Worse case scenario is the government has to subsidize the power station, best case is it helps prevent serious economic issues by providing power.

Worth a lot to not be dependent on Russia for energy.

Nobody depends on Russia for renewable energy.

Re: Sweden’s incoming cabinet says new nuclear reactors will be built

#268

Post by ncmncm »

fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #233
Gwypaas wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is not contradicting himself. You have to remember the awful efficiency of thermal engines. Primary energy demand will decrease because you do not lose 70% of the energy by simply cooling it like in steam turbine used by nuclear power plants or car engines. On the other hand, electricity usage will increase because you have now replaced your 30-40% efficient engines with 90+% efficient engines, but from a differen…

True enough, but I’m hopeful for an energy-abundant future where we figure out how to make solar, wind, nuclear, and batteries cheaply and at scale. Imagine what we could do if energy efficiency didn’t trade off against carbon output. We wouldn’t have to replace all our appliances with something slightly more efficient (and less maintainable) every so many years. And the resources it takes to do that could be redirec…

Everything else is getting cheaper, at an exponential rate, but nukes are getting more costly.

Re: Sweden’s incoming cabinet says new nuclear reactors will be built

#269

Post by Gwypaas »

treeman79 wrote: post #212
themitigating wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair electricity prices vary throughout time. Basing a long term decision on a short term price is foolish. Worse case scenario is the government has to subsidize the power station, best case is it helps prevent serious economic issues by providing power.

Worth a lot to not be dependent on Russia for energy.

Sweden is not dependent on Russian energy and is the largest electricity exporter in Europe.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/sweden-tops-france-e...

Re: Sweden’s incoming cabinet says new nuclear reactors will be built

#270

Post by ncmncm »

tpmx wrote: post #236
geysersam wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Demonstrably insane? Please be serious. Edit: the Swedish green party has promoted renewable power and less dependency on Russian fossile fuels for decades. Not sure why gp calls them insane. Possibly because they consider the Swedish commitments to the Paris agreement important.

I sadly am.

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