Turkey adopts media law jailing for spreading ‘disinformation’ • Hacker News Board

Re: Turkey adopts media law jailing for spreading ‘disinformation’

#51

Post by JacobThreeThree » Fri, Oct 14, 2022, 2:13 PM UTC

simonh wrote: post #36

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you but that’s not what I was referring to. I was referring to pressure on young people to get the vaccine to avoid harming the elderly. If we never tested transmission… what was that about? Why not just let the elderly get it and the young risk it if they wanted? What was behind “by getting the vaccine you are protecting others” when all we actually know is that it protects yourself? There’s probably a…

The expectation was that because they knew the vaccines reduce the chances of getting symptoms such as coughs associated with transmission, reduced the time people were sick for, and also reduce the viral load in people who got sick, that this would result in a reduced chance that people who caught the virus but were vaccinated would transmit the virus. It was an expectation, yes, not a proven fact but they thought i…

>that this would result in a reduced chance that people who caught the virus but were vaccinated would transmit the virus

Shouldn't they have at least tried to study this if that was the expectation?

Re: Turkey adopts media law jailing for spreading ‘disinformation’

#52

Post by terminalcommand » Fri, Oct 14, 2022, 2:14 PM UTC

ianai wrote: post #44

terminalcommand wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The aim is to suppress journalists from spreading corruption scandals and silence whistleblowers and leaks. Basically if you tweet I found this on wikileaks, you'll get jailed first then you will await your trial. Or if you like a whistleblower's tweet, you'll get jailed. The public elections are around the corner, the governing party is losing votes. The economy is in ruins. Corruption scandals pop up everywhere. Fo…

I’m so sorry. I fear this happening in my own country sooner than later. This is an example of censorship being bad because the actual censors won’t be who anyone should want deciding those things. Possibly the better outcome would be for individuals to learn to take the internet with a massive grain of salt.

Thank you. The worst part is that this is planned carefully. You don't notice it but they strip away each right you have slowly and gradualy until you can't fight back. It is kind of like 1984 in real life.

Re: Turkey adopts media law jailing for spreading ‘disinformation’

#53

Post by potatototoo99 » Fri, Oct 14, 2022, 2:15 PM UTC

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #50

commandlinefan wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you truly, genuinely think that is what people want I can't honestly believe you don't think there are a lot of people who want that. They've been very up front about it.

I think it genuinely depends on how extreme the speech is. Alex Jones arguably profited by spreading lies knowing it would ruin the lives of specific people who already had tragedy happen to them. I genuinely don’t know how to defend that behavior on principles of free speech and genuinely wished Alex Jones was stopped years earlier. Michelle Carter convinced her boyfriend to commit suicide over text messages and was…

Alex Jones spouting some conspiracy theories didn't ruin any person's lives. The chilling effect of attacking "desinformation" on the other hand, does.

Re: Turkey adopts media law jailing for spreading ‘disinformation’

#54

Post by lesuorac » Fri, Oct 14, 2022, 2:15 PM UTC

CodeSgt wrote: post #45

ccn0p wrote: post #38

I see a lot of people critical of Turkey... and I agree. But the US is not too far away. See AB-2098 in California just signed by governor / likely presidential nominee Gavin Newson [1] which basically gives the state the ability to revoke medical licenses for spreading "false information that is contradicted by contemporary scientific contrary to the standard of care" (in other words, go against the CDC or other sta…

Yeah, this is especially an issue as certain forms of medical care gets politicized. If a doctor is obviously telling people that cigarettes are healthy and alcohol abuse if the key to a long life then of course they probably should have their license revoked. If a doctor isn't certain of the literature or has moral objections to prescribing hormones to trans teenagers, well that one is up for debate. Similarly see A…

Alex Jones isn't the story you think it is. There are procedures to follow in a lawsuit such as discovery. If you intentionally do not follow them then you get in trouble. He may have been able to muster a "I only said things"/ free speech defense if he actually was trying to defend himself in court.

Instead he didn't participate in the lawsuit and the other party that did is assumed to be correct.

> [1] In both the Texas and Connecticut lawsuits, judges found the company liable for damages by default after Jones failed to cooperate with court rules on sharing evidence, including failing to turn over records that might have showed whether Infowars had profited from knowingly spreading misinformation about mass killings.

> Because he was already found liable, Jones was barred from mentioning free speech rights and other topics during his testimony.

[1]: https://apnews.com/article/shootings-school-connecticut-cons...

Re: Turkey adopts media law jailing for spreading ‘disinformation’

#55

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Oct 14, 2022, 2:16 PM UTC

standardUser wrote: post #46

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s more about how it is extremely counternarrative to how it was marketed and sold. If you had told someone, who had gotten the vaccine, that Pfizer did not know whether you could still pass the virus on to your unvaccinated grandmother, you would have been laughed at. But here we are.

Why would anyone laugh at that unless they themselves had a laughably simplistic concept of how the field of medicine works? As I recall, the details and limitations of the various vaccines were not hidden and no one was lied to.

[deleted]

Re: Turkey adopts media law jailing for spreading ‘disinformation’

#56

Post by hotpotamus » Fri, Oct 14, 2022, 2:18 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #47

Think about the power you want the government to have. And then imagine what your political opponents will do with it the next time they win the election.

There are several governments with the ability to commit world destruction in a couple hours via nuclear fire. The era of small government is long over.

Re: Turkey adopts media law jailing for spreading ‘disinformation’

#57

Post by coderaptor » Fri, Oct 14, 2022, 2:19 PM UTC

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #50

commandlinefan wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you truly, genuinely think that is what people want I can't honestly believe you don't think there are a lot of people who want that. They've been very up front about it.

I think it genuinely depends on how extreme the speech is. Alex Jones arguably profited by spreading lies knowing it would ruin the lives of specific people who already had tragedy happen to them. I genuinely don’t know how to defend that behavior on principles of free speech and genuinely wished Alex Jones was stopped years earlier. Michelle Carter convinced her boyfriend to commit suicide over text messages and was…

Blame the fools who believe the misinformation (or better yet, take responsibility for publishing truth in a more compelling form). It takes two to tango, and one of these tango dancers was raised in a country where they were given a right to dance.

Re: Turkey adopts media law jailing for spreading ‘disinformation’

#58

Post by lesuorac » Fri, Oct 14, 2022, 2:19 PM UTC

ccn0p wrote: post #38

I see a lot of people critical of Turkey... and I agree. But the US is not too far away. See AB-2098 in California just signed by governor / likely presidential nominee Gavin Newson [1] which basically gives the state the ability to revoke medical licenses for spreading "false information that is contradicted by contemporary scientific contrary to the standard of care" (in other words, go against the CDC or other sta…

If you don't want to be beholden to the state then don't get a state enforced license.

> 270. (a) It shall constitute unprofessional conduct for a physician and surgeon to disseminate misinformation or disinformation related to COVID-19, including false or misleading information regarding the nature and risks of the virus, its prevention and treatment; and the development, safety, and effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines.

> (3) “Disseminate” means the conveyance of information from the licensee to a patient under the licensee’s care in the form of treatment or advice.

This only applies to a Doctor advising their patients. If you don't think professional conduct means accurately representing a course of treatment and it's risk I don't know what to say to you.

Sure, there could be a slippery slope to where disseminate doesn't mean only between a Licensee but that was always true.

Re: Turkey adopts media law jailing for spreading ‘disinformation’

#59

Post by potatototoo99 » Fri, Oct 14, 2022, 2:20 PM UTC

standardUser wrote: post #28

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #4

Hold on.. not false statements, not defamation, not calls for violence… but “disinformation.” Except that we find out that many things were disinformation every day. My family is increasingly paranoid after the Pfizer executive said they never tested whether their vaccine prevented transmission to the EU a few days ago. Apparently that is not new information technically speaking, but it is so counter-narrative it bog…

"My family is increasingly paranoid after the Pfizer executive said they never tested whether their vaccine prevented transmission" Can you explain? I have no idea why this is something you or your family would be paranoid about.

A lot of media and politicians spread that Covid vaccines prevented transmission. This was of course false, the studies had only measured "serious illness". He or his family would now take with a grain of salt anything politicians or the media say about any topic (as they should). Another example would be the initial calls against the use of face masks, and even claims that they'd even promote infection.

On this post's topic, would what they did now be considered desinformation? What if the politial party in power changed, would they be be able to persecute the other party for desinformation? Crazy times.

Re: Turkey adopts media law jailing for spreading ‘disinformation’

#60

Post by CodeSgt » Fri, Oct 14, 2022, 2:23 PM UTC

lesuorac wrote: post #54

CodeSgt wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is especially an issue as certain forms of medical care gets politicized. If a doctor is obviously telling people that cigarettes are healthy and alcohol abuse if the key to a long life then of course they probably should have their license revoked. If a doctor isn't certain of the literature or has moral objections to prescribing hormones to trans teenagers, well that one is up for debate. Similarly see A…

Alex Jones isn't the story you think it is. There are procedures to follow in a lawsuit such as discovery. If you intentionally do not follow them then you get in trouble. He may have been able to muster a "I only said things"/ free speech defense if he actually was trying to defend himself in court. Instead he didn't participate in the lawsuit and the other party that did is assumed to be correct. > [1] In both the…

Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not sure if I see how this changes the fundamental nature of the lawsuit. "Spreading disinformation", whether you profit from it or not, is really just "Speaking your incorrect opinion out loud" in a more negative light.

The basis of the lawsuit was "This man said things that made me upset". And yeah, they were rightfully upset, but it's something that I think any court in a country that values freedom would throw out in a heart beat.